Enemy leto and artemis:worst gamebreaker for me

[keptick]

Multiple alternatives:
1) concentrate weapon barage on enemy weapons. Once they are disabled destroy the shields, helm, ect as usual but make sure that they stay destroyed.
2) Boarding can be used to effectively disable enemy weapons. Best when used with crystal beings since you can lock down the room.
3) missiles targeted at weapons, hope they don't miss.
4) hack, offers a temporary weapon cooldown while you destroy them or disable them permanently.
5) mind controlling the crew controlling them, if there is one.

[5thHorseman]

1) concentrate weapon barage on enemy weapons. Once they are disabled destroy the shields, helm, ect as usual but make sure that they stay destroyed.

With a 9-second charge time, it's hard to hit them quickly. With the weapons that lots of ships start with, it's hard to hit them consistently (Sure, I can toss missiles at them like they toss them at me, and then by the 5th encounter have no missiles). And if that first shot misses, then you take a second round of damage.

2) Boarding can be used to effectively disable enemy weapons. Best when used with crystal beings since you can lock down the room.

Not in the early game, except on ships that start with teleporters.

3) missiles targeted at weapons, hope they don't miss.

Again, that's not a long-term strategy if you want to get far into the game.

4) hack, offers a temporary weapon cooldown while you destroy them or disable them permanently.

I'll remember that when I play a hacking ship, though I've found that unless the battle will be quick, hack is far better used on shields.

5) mind controlling the crew controlling them, if there is one.

Again I'll remember that when playing a ship with the component.

None of your suggestions work in the first few sectors on hard mode for most ships. The notable exceptions are those with teleporting, and the Red Tail which starts with 4 lasers and can usually "only" take one missile to the face each fight. Not surprisingly, I take less missile shots with the Red Tail than any other ship.

[project_mercy]

Leto/Artemis launchers and bombs are functionally the only effective weapon the AI has. In fact, in an average game for me, 30-40% of ALL DAMAGE I take during the game is from leto/artemis launchers. If you mod them out (which I've experimented with) the game is drastically changed, due to the fact it doesn't really maintain the ability to be effective without shield penetration or weapons with complementary damage cycles. It's also why the best scrap investment in the game is a defense I drone + drone recovery arm, because you functionally deny the AI the ability to do anything effective unless it has a bomb launcher.

I admit the whole thing is kind of tedious after a while. It turns most fights into the exact same fight for 7 sectors. The only differences are minor like "does this leto launcher come with a zoltan shield?" or "Is this leto launcher running away to get more leto launchers?"

I would propose though, the issue with leto launchers is less to do with them, and more to do with the repair system. One: repair is just too fast. Two: You can't damage a pip that's BEING repaired and since a Leto launcher is only 1 energy, the AI can basically constantly repair it and shoot it before most weapons cycle. All repair damage should be wiped if there's sufficient system damage to take that point down.


I started a new mod where, amongst other things, I'm removing missiles. The traditional role of missiles is replaced with projectile weapons (mass drivers, rail guns, coil guns, etc) which don't require ammo, but require power/larger uptake times instead. Missiles ammo is instead used for bombs and boarding pods. That, and some other changes, I'm hoping will make the AI a.) more varied and effective and b.) not be the same tedious fight.

[Jerjare]

Missile weapons early game are annoying, because the reload is fast enough to eventually hit you. You can hack weapons, but they will get a shot off while hack is on cooldown. Same with Stealth- even timing it so you pop stealth while the missiles in flight will still have the enemy getting a few windows to fire and hit you.

Early on you have to have a way to mitigate at least two volleys to damage their weapons enough to disable them. Previously, you had enough time to upgrade your drones, evasion or weapons to consistently avoid them if you prepared. Now, you're up against missile boats so early you're rather SOL.

For slow ships like Engi B with little evasion, it can be rough if you end up having to face 3+ missile armed ships in a row.

[project_mercy]

I prefer hacking piloting. Hacking shields is only really useful if you have a couple pips of energy in them. If you're weak on guns, then maybe it's OK to spend that energy, but you're out a drone part that you can't recover for the privilege. A single combat drone (which a drone recovery arm will recoup the cost) will roughly drop 1 pip of shields permanently (given timing) for 2 energy.

Piloting though, evasion of 0 lets you really crank on them, and once you nail the cockpit, they have to hack through the hacking-locked doors to get to it.

[LostAlone]

The problem isn't missiles or the mechanics behind them it's that the AI has infinite ammo (a key balancing factor for the player) and even if they DID have ammo they have no interest in conserving ammo past the present encounter, so they can spam and spam and spam. Mostly it's not a problem because the AIs targeting isn't all that clever, but at times it feels point blank unfair when they suddenly get their act together.

I came to find this thread specifically because I just had a genuinely rage inducing moment with a leto in sector 2. I had two shield bubbles and 3 engines - A normal amount of upgrade I think, with an Ion Burst and a Halberd Beam. I came up against an AI drone with a 1 shot laser and a leto. No problem, thought I. I even chuckled a little. Easy pickings. Well this guy had other ideas. First shot hits my weapons, knocks the beam offline. Second shot hits engines. Third shot back on weapons, way before I could repair. And so on. And so on. And eventually I died. Couldn't run, couldn't fight. Even with multiple people in the damaged rooms the beam took way too long to charge between shots and engines only went back online for a few seconds at a time, my FTL was bout 3/4 charged when I died.

ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

[5thHorseman]

The problem isn't missiles or the mechanics behind them it's that the AI has infinite ammo (a key balancing factor for the player) and even if they DID have ammo they have no interest in conserving ammo past the present encounter, so they can spam and spam and spam.

They have ammo. If you suck it up long enough they'll run out. Sometimes it's the only thing that's saved me

[shadowcrust]

Enemy missiles and drones are limited, drones usually between 2 and 5, missiles up to 10 or 12 when I counted. So it's actually hard to die against a Leto if not low on hull when the fight starts. Leto only does one damage, so a maximum of 12 hull damage can be inflicted if it always hits.

[LostAlone]

Well, even so - Like I said the AI ships have no interest in conserving resources for future fights, nor do they have to scavenge/buy ammo which are all critical balancing factors for players.

Which is not to say that it's especially broken or anything, but it can be extremely rage inducing to have a single Artemis wreck your entire ship, especially with the defenses being chance based. They somehow always seem to hit multiple times in a row against 50% dodge, or your defense drone gets suspiciously inaccurate just in time to get the crap kicked out of you.