Ship Tier List [SPOILERS]

[riktoven]

Of course there are no guarantees of being able to set the ship up any specific way, that applies to every ship.

Not every ship can go the entire game with never activating a conventional weapon, this one can. Bump artillery beam, full power to engines, and you enjoy a 55% evasion and wait it out.

I realize you take a few missile hits until you get drones, but that applies to every ship that doesn't start with Def drones or cloak.

Are there any other ships that can easily beat the game without adding any systems or weapons? The Fed cruiser is my middle finger to the RNG.

[Twinge]

Are there any other ships that can easily beat the game without adding any systems or weapons? The Fed cruiser is my middle finger to the RNG.

The Mantis B can win without ever upgrading any systems (so staying at Level 1 Engines, Level 1 Weapons, etc.) The Engi A and Zoltan B's starting loadouts can pierce Tier 4 shields without anything extra. Hell, the Kestrel A can kill the Flagship with its starting weapons and a teleporter.

While the Artillery Beam is nice to have a reliable beam that's guaranteed to hit, it's slow. Even after a large investment the lowest it gets pre-Reloader is 20s. Relying on it means longer fights, which means more chances for you to take damage - especially when you can never cloak and defense drones are least effective on the Fed. A (~85% effectiveness, compared to 99.5% effectiveness for Engi Cruisers). On the plus side, the Fed A does have the best starting crew in the game, but overall I feel the lack of the incredibly powerful cloaking is a much stronger detriment than any advantage from the death ray.

[riktoven]

How does the Mantis B beat the flagship with level 1 engine and weapons?

I get that the boarders are badass, but how do you deal with the Medbay and Zoltan shield, especially when you have jack squat for evasion and are going to be taking every salvo in the teeth?

No arguments on the Engi A and Zoltan B, more good easy ships, but I don't get how the Kestrel could do it without getting lucky enough to find a mantis or two to stuff in the teleporter...that starting crew sure as heck aren't doing it.

Like I said in my first post, I don't think it's worth giving up the cloak, but it's winnable in the worst of runs and can, no WILL beat the flagship in 44 seconds flat if you pull a run with 3 reloaders (much quicker than that if you activate other weapons and actually sit at the keyboard and help). You usually have to actually be at the keyboard for the third phase since that Zoltan shield recharges, but a 99 second victory is possible not being at the keyboard if you get lucky on 3 consecutive beams which manages to kill it before the z shield recharges.

If easy wins equals high spots on the tiers, the ship that doesn't need a person at the keys seems like it should be right behind the quad teleporting ships, and the Engi A.

[Twinge]

How does the Mantis B beat the flagship with level 1 engine and weapons?

Here's my full No Upgrade run: http://www.twitch.tv/darktwinge/c/3424448

And here's Discord's No Upgrade boss fight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIM9dHB79oY

If easy wins equals high spots on the tiers, the ship that doesn't need a person at the keys seems like it should be right behind the quad teleporting ships, and the Engi A.

My tier list is based on a top-level player on Normal difficulty and their chances of winning the game with a given ship.

[UltraMantis]

riktoven questions the authoritah

I must confess that i would rather have a full Zoltan crew than not upgrade my beloved engines. On the subject of The Claw's victory, it sure helped to have that Ion Bomb and i didn't immediatly realise that you'd buy systems. Hehe 1lvl cloak being all that's needed.

Overall it's a very tight margin of victory, since you need 1power weapons, but if there's one ship that has a good chance of collecting a LOT of scrap/items it's the Mantis B. Nice to see it done, good job.

[Nevill]

Tier 4 (Below Average, but good with a bit of luck)
Stealth A - The Nesario

This ship almost got in a higher tier on sheer fun factor. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it's true. The Nesario is just plain fun to play. It does start out with one of my favorite augments in the game- Long Range Scanners. Still though, it is slightly luck based. You will want to buy a shield system early on, and there is a bit of a chance that a shield system will not be available to you until it is too late. However, if the chips fall in the right places, the Nesario could easily be justified to move into a higher tier.

I believe this is the reason for the discrepancies we are seeing when people try to place The Nesasio on the list. The ship's power is severely weakened if you try to compensate for its weakness and buy shields rather than capitalize on its strengths (that is, the ability to - almost - always fire the first shot) and go for superior firepower instead. If you have means to cripple the opponent's weapons systems, you do not need shields in the first place, while if you lack weapons, you are just prolonging the fights needlessly and creating more opportunities for the enemies to hurt you, even if you have shields.

You can get by without shields just fine until the 4th sector (and quite possibly, for the whole game, though in this case success is... a bit less consistent). If you see weapons/drones/teleporter in the shop, they are a much better investment.

No arguments on the Engi A and Zoltan B, more good easy ships, but I don't get how the Kestrel could do it without getting lucky enough to find a mantis or two to stuff in the teleporter...that starting crew sure as heck aren't doing it.

I have a save with a fully maxed Kestrel equipped with starting weapons and a crew roster of 8. I jettisoned all but 2 humans and one Engi. Here is how it's done:



All you need is to start a fire in the Medbay, or in the Cloaking section, or in the Door Control. One spark is all it takes. Failing that, you need a breach either in the Oxygen Room, or in the Medbay. Or, with enough boarders, you can just overwhelm the defenders, even if those boarders are Engi.

[KarateF22]

I honestly feel like the Red-tail should be in the broken tier with the Carnelian; granted it doesn't come with a cloak or teleporter, but it does come with one of the most flexible starting crews, the best defensive ship layout period, and an extremely strong early weapon loadout that is highly adaptable to additions (and we all know how critical those first couple of sectors are). I just feel that you really have to play extremely terribly or literally get no weapon upgrades, ever, to fail to reach and defeat the flagship.

[Iranon]

Pretty sure it doesn't belong in the top tier. I'd put it below Engi A, Mantis B, Zoltan B, Slug A, and about equal to Zoltan A, Crystal A.

Starting weaponry isn't anything you want to hold on to, ability to go through 3 shields layers is nice but 3 < infinity (Engi A, Zoltan B).
Layout is indeed nice and defensible... but the quality no 1 I ask for in a ship's layout is compactness, to improve the efficiency of defense drones.
Crew is above average, but can't hold a candle to Crystals or Federation A (Zoltans are great later on, but to start with races with blue options are better).
It's a fine gunship, but without special tricks that isn't enough to shine.

[KarateF22]

Pretty sure it doesn't belong in the top tier. I'd put it below Engi A, Mantis B, Zoltan B, Slug A, and about equal to Zoltan A, Crystal A.

Starting weaponry isn't anything you want to hold on to, ability to go through 3 shields layers is nice but 3 < infinity (Engi A, Zoltan B).
Layout is indeed nice and defensible... but the quality no 1 I ask for in a ship's layout is compactness, to improve the efficiency of defense drones.
Crew is above average, but can't hold a candle to Crystals or Federation A (Zoltans are great later on, but to start with races with blue options are better).
It's a fine gunship, but without special tricks that isn't enough to shine.

"Special tricks" isn't how the tier list is sorted, it is sorted by how reliably the ship can get from sector 1 to sector 8 and defeat the flagship. Sure, the Kestrel B may be a tad "boring" with events, but it is extremely resistant to negative RNG and responds extremely well to positive RNG. As for its layout, it isn't Torus compact but it definitely is one of the more compact ships around. One of the Kestrel B's greatest strengths is the fact that it can quickly adapt to whatever the game gives it.... get a second mantis early? Go boarding and kill crews... Find a Burst Laser II? You are a true blue gunship, go wreck stuff with your 6 laser barrages.

[Iranon]

List isn't sorted by special tricks, of course, but they are part of a ship's chance to win the game.

Kestrel B:
Crew and layout are good.
Starting value and weaponry are ok: latter is powerful and redundant, but inefficient (slots and energy)
Opportunities are lacking. No blue options, no easy way of taking ships intact. Fine control over damage dealt means we can go for the oxygen when it's safe, but it doesn't work that often.

True, RNG is unlikely to screw one spectacularly in early battles, but it doesn't accumulate resources as well as many others which can lead to weaknesses later on.
I'm also not convinced by the examples you gave for adaptability. A Burst Laser 2 is one of the best weapons one can find, all other gunships but Zoltan B wield it better imo (Slug A becomes very sweet). Boarding-focused ships would be ecstatic about proper weaponry. Another Mantis is only useful if we find a teleporter... and again, that's useful for anyone as a Mantis and any warm body is enough for successful boarding.

It's a good ship, but doesn't compare to Engi A:
Also comfortably wins early battles. Even better layout. Starting weaponry sufficient to beat the boss. Extremely high starting value, some blue options, easy ability to go for O2 kills, ability to use any drones we find immediately, benefits greatly from finding *any* weaponry: RNG has many more opportunities to be kind.
Mostly noncombatant crew is nicely compensated by the unique augment, which combined with excellent repair ability greatly boosts reliability.