Subset Games Forum

5thHorseman wrote:

Estel wrote:That could work, but it would also mean, that every 1st sector for IS would be CE crystal sector (=vanilla crystal sector). First, it may be a little over-kill for starting, non-upgraded ship - or, OTOH, in lucky situations, giving too much rewards. Second, it sounds a little strange, that every race starts they journey in crystals.

Sorry, I should have said: Even though the discussion for the past few pages has been about merging CE and IS, this was just a thought about IS by itself.

I personally see no benefit to merging the two. I don't know about other people, but when I want to play a mod I just load the mod and play it. I run the mod manager almost as often as I run FTL itself.

The thing is, IS and CE are quite incompatible.

Benefit is simple - CE is kind of "unofficial patch", rather than mod, as it adds content and fixes exploits, preserving vanilla "feeling" as much as possible. so,you have battle stations, drone carriers, cruisers, etc.

Now, before making IS CE-dependent, you can't use both at the same time (i.e. have battle stations and friends in IS gameplay). Afterwards, IS can make use of all CE resources, events, etc.

It mean not only benefit for players (obvious one), but also for IS developer - big pool of creepers and events to use, without need to re-create wheel over and over again.

/Estel

I may be a little off point, but how is Captain's Edition (a collection of mods) not a mod? The whole sentence is full of contradicting agruments.

The big issue right now is reworking Infinite Space, making it compatible with the latest version of FTL and GMM compatible. Is there any way to use the community and delegate parts of data that need .appening?

Once IS can be patched in, it can be loaded before or after CE to merge the two mods in a clumsy way. A separate hybrid version of Infinite Space using CE material can be created. There will probably be some conflicting assets preventing a complete merger.

UltraMantis wrote:I may be a little off point, but how is Captain's Edition (a collection of mods) not a mod? The whole sentence is full of contradicting agruments.

The big issue right now is reworking Infinite Space, making it compatible with the latest version of FTL and GMM compatible. Is there any way to use the community and delegate parts of data that need .appening?

Once IS can be patched in, it can be loaded before or after CE to merge the two mods in a clumsy way. A separate hybrid version of Infinite Space using CE material can be created. There will probably be some conflicting assets preventing a complete merger.

Estel's wording may be a bit clumsy, but the fact remains that CE and IS are completely incompatible when merged via mod manager - best-case scenario, IS gets CE weapons and a few of the alternate ship layouts. Worst-case scenario, IS gets nothing at all.

I'm kind of speculating here, but isn't IS bringing most of it's stuff into the game via it's custom event lists? (INF_HOSTILE...) That might actually allow to integrate CE into IS via the mod manager and without merging the mods altogether into a new stand alone mod.

CE could have compatibility versions of this lists with its own events and stuff included. If CE would be loaded after IS the lists would override and you get CE events in IS. That could work for everything (guns, drones, ships) if SI uses custom lists for it.

I might be simplifying this a little, but technically that should work, as long as CE does not modify the crystal sector and the start beacon itself. If you want to modify CE events further to fit in with IS than a full merge would be required.

That could work, actually.

SI standalone would have to use a few more custom lists instead of the vanilla ones though, NEBULA could become NEBULA_INF for example. Oh well, and the ship lists and weapon lists might cause problems in case they contain special SI stuff. They have to keep vanilla name to remain usable...

Also, IS have custom things like mini-bosses and the way of achieving ship-specific augmentation.

Unlike UltraMantis, is see zero benefit in adjusting Is to latest FTL patch itself - its highly unlikely, that we will see any more official FTL updates. OTOH, CE is constantly updated, and become de facto unofficial patch. I understand, that some may not like it and OPT out to use vanilla FTL only - well, it's their loss. After all, when someone want to OPT out from, lets say, One and Only (tm) mod manager, he is cut from 99% of mods, too.

Summing it up, for me, basing IS on CE is most effective future-proof way of maintaining IS - especially, that Is author stated limited time availability. Sure, there can exist 32562375532657327856 version of IS to suit different layouts, but who is gonna create it? If someone would be interested in making IS compatible with FTL vanilla latest patch, it would be done dozen of times, already (UltraMantis, looking at you ). I haven't seen a crowd working on it, though.

So, if we can count only on author for this mod, it's natural for him to spend his time on most effective way (CE integration). As said earlier, it gives big pool of custom enemies, events. balanced weapons, drones, etc, than can be used for IS-specific situations, without re-inventing them from scratch. Not to mention possible help from CE author on smashing bugs, who (author, not bug) is quite active.
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Of course, all after all, it is IS author decision, on what he want his mod to be based. Personally, with "basing on CE" scenario, I see only gains for both end-user, and developer.

/Estel

Estel wrote:One and Only (tm) mod manager

Not anymore ;p

Estel wrote:If someone would be interested in making IS compatible with FTL vanilla latest patch, it would be done dozen of times, already (UltraMantis, looking at you ). I haven't seen a crowd working on it, though.

Several people tried to tackle this issue, myself included, but the problem is that IS modifies a whole lot of events it doesn't even need to modify in order to eliminate the Rebel fleet (when we can just <modifyPursuit amount="-1000"/> on each beacon exit instead).
Because of this, it's difficult to separate core features of IS from purely cosmetic ones.
Were that not the case, it'd actually be quite simple to make IS compatible with newest version of FTL (as well as with other mods), since the amount of data that requires debugging would be much more manageable.

[quote="kartoFlane"]
the problem is that IS modifies a whole lot of events it doesn't even need to modify in order to eliminate the Rebel fleet (when we can just <modifyPursuit amount="-1000"/> on each beacon exit instead).]/quote]

I have no opinion at this, as I'm already too over-projected to tackle on FTL modding. But, as IS developer recently become active again, I'm sure he would welcome details on what could be done better, as advices from experienced moders. It seems that if he did something "wrong way", he did it, because he wasn't aware of better possibility.

BTW, I'm surprised, that no one did replacement for IS, if re-creating it from scratch is *that* easy as you describe it. (no irony - I really have no idea, never dwelled into this mod structure, due to time limitations).

/Estel