Subset Games Forum

Posted: **Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:49 am**

No no, I can play the DRM-Free version, I can go to the FTL folder and start up the game through FTLGame.exe with no problems. Starting the game THROUGH Steam is the one that crashes at the start.

EDIT: Oh wait, you mean when I spoke about restarting the game. Maybe it's the save file that's glitched and restarting a game through it made it crash? I did notice now that if I restart a game and I'm in Contested Deep Space, the new game will also have Contested Deep Space, so maybe the crash was the same reason as the crashes I've been having?

EDIT 2: I found another problematic beacon, this one freezes the game after jumping towards it, fortunately I can provide a screenshot to it, but all I can say is that it's in open space and I have no idea if it had a hazard or a hostile:

I've jumped to a different beacon, and found no problem, so I'm assuming that one beacon has a problem.

Posted: **Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:38 am**

The problem with contested deep space is that it can contain virtually *any* beacon inside (except small list of... well, exceptions), so while it's nice from your side that you're trying to help debugging it, it (probably) won't help at all, until someone report that problematic beacon from normal playthrough (so it's possible to narrow debugging to certain sector type, etc).

Also, my bold hyphotesis about steam having upgraded your FTL in background, without - obviously - deleting SMM reference backups still stands. Try reinstalling everything from scratch (you can keep your overall progress saved in ae_prof.sav and prof.sav), mandatory deleting things from SMM backup directory between uninstalling and installing.

/Estel

Posted: **Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:18 pm**

is it just me or is events that give you slug crew really really rare...

or is it just that you only find them in nebula sectors?

Posted: **Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:02 pm**

Awesome mod, can't play without it anymore.

I just have a single "negative" comment to make: personally I find swarm based weapons brake the already finnicky game balance. Playing on normal I often find enemies with a double laser of some sort, a single missile AND a swarm battery as early as sector 2. It's not impossible to survive and continue with the game, but more often than not you are forced to spend a lot of scrap for repairs and flee from engagements, leading to no rewards.

It doesn't help the fact that even low tier batteries deal quite some damage, and that your only defence against them is evasion (hardly over 30/35% on the first sectors).

I don't know exactly how enemy loadouts are laid out, but it seems like swarm batteries are given some type of "0 cost" and thus get added to loadouts that already match the sector general difficulty.

This said, would you be considering making swarm weapons a togglable feauture, or maybe recalibrate them in regards to game balance? Or am I just no good enough?

Thank you!

Posted: **Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:45 pm**

Are you playing the current version? Just asking cause there was some problem that caused swarms to appear more often then intended before, but that has been fixed since some time. I find that they appear much less frequently now. Which sectors you go to also affect enemy weapons, obviously. If you go to certain sector types you will encounter more swarm missiles.

Overall I find that swarm missiles are actually less a threat than normal missiles, as they mess up your systems less. Investing more into evasion, getting defense drones and focusing on disarming your opponents can help you dealing with swarms and most other missiles.

SpaceDux wrote:is it just me or is events that give you slug crew really really rare...
or is it just that you only find them in nebula sectors?

Slug rarity is just the same as in vanilla. And yes, you can only find them in certain sectors, mostly nebula (just like in vanilla).

Posted: **Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:12 am**

Found a typo. In a hazard sector. "The space here is saturated with micro particles, whixh might clog your sensors and impede your engines."

Posted: **Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:26 am**

Gliptal wrote:It doesn't help the fact that even low tier batteries deal quite some damage, and that your only defence against them is evasion (hardly over 30/35% on the first sectors).

Not entirely true - swarms were always imperceptible by tier 2 defense drones, and since few major versions, they're shot down by any defense drone. While I agree that they may seems a little more "anti-player" (as they're doing more hull damage - the one that you need to repair - as opposed to system damage which is "free" to repair), but they're much less dangerous on tactical level (at least if you're not too frightened by their impact sound

), due to their low system damage.

The effect is, that they make initial sectors a little (just tiny bit) harder, but completely lose importance in later sectors (many times, you *will* be happy to see them over dual or triple missiles, or the single, 4 system+hull damage ones). They may bite you and may contribute to hull-starving, but will hardly contribute to you losing single fight entirely.

Gliptal wrote:I don't know exactly how enemy loadouts are laid out, but it seems like swarm batteries are given some type of "0 cost" and thus get added to loadouts that already match the sector general difficulty.

There is no such thing as treating them like 0-cost weapon for enemies, AFAIK. Once, game seen them as laser weapons, which could result in them spawning in place of some lasers or alongside already powerful normal-rocket battery. Sleepy fixed it, so i Guess your enemy just was meant to have 3 weapons (remember, enemies with 2 weapons are standard for that sector, but in every sector, you have chance to meet unusually weak enemy - one shield/weapon less, most of the times - or unusually strong one, augmented by additional shield bubble/weapon).

BTW, same feelings toward CE greatness here - I just wouldn't be able to play FTL without it. It's a core component, for me.

Gliptal wrote:Or am I just no good enough?

Why, maybe just a little not experienced enough

CE's point about "harsher universe" isn't just marketing-speech bullet point, it's really a little harder than vanilla FTL (but also, much, much more richer). Many things require few...tens (was tempted to write "hundreds" here

) of playthroughs to get hang of and adapt. Lets see recently added hyperspace travel - many people think it makes their playthroughs harder, and I must admit that it made me run out of fuel few times initially, but I already incorporated it into my strategy and I use it to my great advantage (single fuel per additional beacon visited per sector is really beneficial, if you know how to manage your engine upgrades and fuel stock!).

The point is, with enough experience, you will adapt to everything and learn to use it to your advantage, no worries.

/Estel

Posted: **Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:13 am**

Sleeper Service wrote:Oh yes please, bring it on, I'm just fiddling with 1.229.

Shoutout to Biohazard, Exevolution and SKXproductions. Their LPs continue to benefit development as they turn up a lot of small errors now and then.

Also CE is big in Korea now.

Don't worry, I got this.
Famous last words, along side of "hold my beer" and "F' it"

And yeah, from what I experienced, swarms indeed seem to pop up less. At least less in combination with other missile type weaponry.

Posted: **Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:29 am**

I will concur with Gliptal that Swarm Missiles are OP for early AI use, though I will agree that they seem to mostly coincide with Ion weapons rather than other missiles. However, they are about 3x as powerful as normal missiles in the first 1-2 sectors, especially with fire chance.

Against teleporter ships, they're a death sentence. Against low crew ships, they're a death sentence. If they start a fire in your weapons room, they're a death sentence. If they start a fire in the O2, they're a death sentence. Overall, it damns too many strategies for me to feel that it is balanced.

It also deals so much damage even if you survive. I almost always lose 2/3s of my hull before reaching sector two, and at least ~12 damage is from them. And in hard difficulty, the loss of the scrap for repairs is massive.

Also, it feels like they fire faster than missiles, but I haven't checked. All in all, I feel like they're a death sentence for a lot of ships when encountered early on. You might not die today, but you will die in the near future.

On a mostly unrelated note, I am also confused about how FTL knows to rank weapons, because I am sure FTL does rank weapons, but I don't know how.

Posted: **Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:54 am**

Krazyguy75 wrote:Also, it feels like they fire faster than missiles, but I haven't checked.

Well you can check right here:

CEs swarm missiles:

Code: Select all

<weaponBlueprint name="BA_MISSILES_SWARM_1">
	<type>LASER</type>
	<flavorType>Swarm Missile Launcher</flavorType>
	<tip>ce_tip_missiles_swarm</tip>
	<title>Ogre Missile Battery</title>
	<short>Ogre</short>
	<desc>Basic battery that fires a small swarm of missiles that deals 2 damage to hull, but only half that damage to systems and crew.</desc>
	<tooltip>Fires a small missile swarm that deals 2 damage to hull, but only half that damage to systems and crew.</tooltip>
	<drone_targetable>2</drone_targetable>
	<damage>2</damage>
	<stun>3</stun>
	<missiles>1</missiles>
	<shots>1</shots>
	<sysDamage>-1</sysDamage>
	<persDamage>-1</persDamage>
	<speed>35</speed>
	<sp>5</sp>
	<fireChance>1</fireChance>
	<breachChance>0</breachChance>
	<cooldown>10</cooldown>
	<power>1</power>
	<cost>30</cost>
	<bp>7</bp>
	<rarity>1</rarity>
	<image>ba_missile_anime_1</image>
	<explosion>ba_explosion_anime</explosion>
	<launchSounds>
		<sound>engine_missile_swarm_launch</sound>
	</launchSounds>
	<hitShipSounds>
		<sound>explosion_anime</sound>
	</hitShipSounds>
	<hitShieldSounds>
		<sound>hit_shield_scatter_1</sound>
		<sound>hit_shield_scatter_2</sound>
		<sound>hit_shield_scatter_3</sound>
	</hitShieldSounds>
	<missSounds>
		<sound>miss</sound>
	</missSounds>
	<weaponArt>ba_missiles_barrage_1</weaponArt> 
</weaponBlueprint>

<weaponBlueprint name="BA_MISSILES_SWARM_2">
	<type>LASER</type>
	<flavorType>Swarm Missile Launcher</flavorType>
	<tip>ce_tip_missiles_swarm</tip>
	<title>Leviathan Missile Battery</title>
	<short>Leviath</short>
	<desc>Heavy artillery battery that fires a swarm of missiles that deals 3 damage to hull, but much less damage to systems and crew.</desc>
	<tooltip>Fires a missile swarm that deals 3 damage to hull, but less damage to systems and crew; pierces all shields.</tooltip>
	<drone_targetable>2</drone_targetable>
	<damage>3</damage>
	<stun>3</stun>
	<missiles>1</missiles>
	<shots>1</shots>
	<sysDamage>-2</sysDamage>
	<persDamage>-2</persDamage>
	<speed>35</speed>
	<sp>5</sp>
	<fireChance>2</fireChance>
	<breachChance>1</breachChance>
	<cooldown>13</cooldown>
	<power>2</power>
	<cost>40</cost>
	<bp>7</bp>
	<rarity>2</rarity>
	<image>ba_missile_anime_2</image>
	<explosion>ba_explosion_anime</explosion>
	<launchSounds>
		<sound>engine_missile_swarm_launch</sound>
	</launchSounds>
	<hitShipSounds>
		<sound>explosion_anime</sound>
	</hitShipSounds>
	<hitShieldSounds>
		<sound>hit_shield_scatter_1</sound>
		<sound>hit_shield_scatter_2</sound>
		<sound>hit_shield_scatter_3</sound>
	</hitShieldSounds>
	<missSounds>
		<sound>miss</sound>
	</missSounds>
	<weaponArt>ba_missiles_barrage_2</weaponArt> 
</weaponBlueprint>

<weaponBlueprint name="BA_MISSILES_SWARM_3">
	<type>LASER</type>
	<flavorType>Swarm Missile Launcher</flavorType>
	<tip>ce_tip_missiles_swarm</tip>
	<title>Titan Missile Battery</title>
	<short>Titan</short>
	<desc>Huge artillery battery that releases a massive swarm of missiles. Deals 4 damage to hull, but only half that damage to systems and crew.</desc>
	<tooltip>Fires a missile swarm that deals 4 damage to hull, but only half that damage to systems and crew; pierces all shields.</tooltip>
	<drone_targetable>2</drone_targetable>
	<damage>4</damage>
	<missiles>1</missiles>
	<stun>4</stun>
	<shots>1</shots>
	<sysDamage>-2</sysDamage>
	<persDamage>-2</persDamage>
	<speed>35</speed>
	<sp>5</sp>
	<fireChance>3</fireChance>
	<breachChance>2</breachChance>
	<cooldown>18</cooldown>
	<power>2</power>
	<cost>50</cost>
	<bp>7</bp>
	<rarity>3</rarity>
	<image>ba_missile_anime_3</image>
	<explosion>ba_explosion_anime</explosion>
	<launchSounds>
		<sound>engine_missile_swarm_launch</sound>
	</launchSounds>
	<hitShipSounds>
		<sound>explosion_anime</sound>
	</hitShipSounds>
	<hitShieldSounds>
		<sound>hit_shield_scatter_1</sound>
		<sound>hit_shield_scatter_2</sound>
		<sound>hit_shield_scatter_3</sound>
	</hitShieldSounds>
	<missSounds>
		<sound>miss</sound>
	</missSounds>
	<weaponArt>ba_missiles_barrage_3</weaponArt> 
</weaponBlueprint>

Same tier Vanilla missiles:

Code: Select all

<weaponBlueprint name="MISSILES_2">
	<type>MISSILES</type>
	<tip>tip_missiles</tip>
	<title>Artemis Missiles</title>
	<short>Artemis</short>
	<desc>Standard missile launcher on most Federation ships.</desc>
	<tooltip>Fires 1 missile; does 2 damage; pierces all shields.</tooltip>
	<damage>2</damage>
	<missiles>1</missiles>
	<shots>1</shots>
	<sp>5</sp>
	<fireChance>1</fireChance>
	<breachChance>1</breachChance>
	<stunChance>1</stunChance>
	<cooldown>10</cooldown>
	<power>2</power>
	<cost>38</cost>
	<bp>5</bp>
	<rarity>0</rarity>
	<image>missile_2</image>
	<launchSounds>
		<sound>smallMissile1</sound>
		<sound>smallMissile2</sound>
	</launchSounds>
	<hitShipSounds>
		<sound>smallExplosion</sound>
	</hitShipSounds>
	<hitShieldSounds>
		<sound>hitShield1</sound>
		<sound>hitShield2</sound>
		<sound>hitShield3</sound>
	</hitShieldSounds>
	<missSounds>
		<sound>miss</sound>
	</missSounds>
	<weaponArt>missiles_1</weaponArt> 
	<iconImage>missile</iconImage>
</weaponBlueprint>

<weaponBlueprint name="MISSILES_3">
	<type>MISSILES</type>
	<tip>tip_missiles</tip>
	<title>Hermes Missile</title>
	<short>Hermes</short>
	<desc>Standard but powerful missile.</desc>
	<tooltip>Fires 1 missile; does 3 damage; pierces all shields.</tooltip>
	<!--<desc>Power Req: 2    Pierces through all shields and deals 3 damage with a chance of fire and breaches. Uses 1 missile per shot.</desc>-->
	<damage>3</damage>
	<missiles>1</missiles>
	<shots>1</shots>
	<sp>5</sp>
	<fireChance>3</fireChance>
	<breachChance>2</breachChance>
	<stunChance>1</stunChance>
	<cooldown>14</cooldown>
	<power>3</power> 
	<cost>45</cost> <!--was 50-->
	<bp>6</bp>
	<rarity>2</rarity>
	<image>missile_3</image>
	<launchSounds>
		<sound>smallMissile1</sound>
		<sound>smallMissile2</sound>
	</launchSounds>
	<hitShipSounds>
		<sound>smallExplosion</sound>
	</hitShipSounds>
	<hitShieldSounds>
		<sound>hitShield1</sound>
		<sound>hitShield2</sound>
		<sound>hitShield3</sound>
	</hitShieldSounds>
	<missSounds>
		<sound>miss</sound>
	</missSounds>
	<weaponArt>missiles_2</weaponArt> 
	<iconImage>missile</iconImage>
</weaponBlueprint>

<weaponBlueprint name="MISSILES_BURST">
	<type>MISSILES</type>
	<tip>tip_missiles</tip>
	<title>Pegasus Missile</title>
	<short>Pegasus</short>
	<desc>Creative missile design allows for two projectiles for the cost of one!</desc>
	<tooltip>Fires 2 missiles; 2 damage each; pierces all shields.</tooltip>
	<!--<desc>Power Req: 3    Fires 2 missiles that pierces through all shields and deals 2 damage. Consumes 2 missile per shot.</desc>-->
	<damage>2</damage>
	<missiles>1</missiles>
	<shots>2</shots>
	<sp>5</sp>
	<fireChance>3</fireChance>
	<breachChance>2</breachChance>
	<stunChance>1</stunChance>
	<cooldown>20</cooldown>
	<power>3</power>
	<cost>60</cost> <!--was 80 -->
	<bp>7</bp>
	<rarity>3</rarity>
	<image>missile_2</image>
	<launchSounds>
		<sound>smallMissile1</sound>
		<sound>smallMissile2</sound>
	</launchSounds>
	<hitShipSounds>
		<sound>smallExplosion</sound>
	</hitShipSounds>
	<hitShieldSounds>
		<sound>hitShield1</sound>
		<sound>hitShield2</sound>
		<sound>hitShield3</sound>
	</hitShieldSounds>
	<missSounds>
		<sound>miss</sound>
	</missSounds>
	<weaponArt>missiles_1</weaponArt> 
	<iconImage>missile</iconImage>
</weaponBlueprint>

<weaponBlueprint name="MISSILES_BREACH">
	<type>MISSILES</type>
	<tip>tip_missiles</tip>
	<title>Breach Missiles</title>
	<short>Breach</short>
	<desc>These missiles are designed to cause maximum destruction to ship hull armor.</desc>
	<tooltip>Fires 1 missile; 4 damage; pierces all shields; high breach chance.</tooltip>
	<!--<desc>Power Req: 3    Fires a single shot, heavy missile that does 4 damage and causes breaches in the target's hull.</desc>-->
	<damage>4</damage>
	<missiles>1</missiles>
	<shots>1</shots>
	<sp>5</sp>
	<fireChance>3</fireChance>
	<breachChance>8</breachChance>
	<stunChance>1</stunChance>
	<cooldown>22</cooldown>
	<power>3</power>
	<cost>65</cost> <!--was 70 -->
	<bp>7</bp>
	<rarity>3</rarity>
	<image>missile_breach</image>
	<launchSounds>
		<sound>smallMissile1</sound>
		<sound>smallMissile2</sound>
	</launchSounds>
	<hitShipSounds>
		<sound>smallExplosion</sound>
	</hitShipSounds>
	<hitShieldSounds>
		<sound>hitShield1</sound>
		<sound>hitShield2</sound>
		<sound>hitShield3</sound>
	</hitShieldSounds>
	<missSounds>
		<sound>miss</sound>
	</missSounds>
	<weaponArt>missiles_2</weaponArt> 
	<iconImage>missile</iconImage>
</weaponBlueprint>

As you can see the Leviathan and Titan cool down slightly faster than their same tier counterparts (1-2 seconds). They all deal less system damage and have a smaller fire chance than their same tier vanilla counterparts. I don't see how this makes them 3x as powerfull in early sectors, in comparison they are actually the worst missiles in the game right now. Your boarding ship will always be under fire by missiles, also in vanilla. That is something you have to deal with. I don't see how fire in the O2 room is an automatic death sentence. Also CE was and is designed to be played on normal, just as it says below the download. It is up to you if you play it on hard, but you can't use hardmode to make a point here.

Krazyguy75 wrote:On a mostly unrelated note, I am also confused about how FTL knows to rank weapons, because I am sure FTL does rank weapons, but I don't know how.

I'm just making a guess from experience here, but I think it goes like this: Each enemy gets rolled its available weapon power first. Then it draws weapons from its weapon list that use the available power. There seem to be some limitations on how many weapon slots the enemy can use as well. I don't think enemies can use more than two weapon in sector one, their third and fourth weapon slots become available throughout the game at certain sectors I guess. Weapon type also seems to feature into weapon draws. Enemies seem to be more likely to get LASER type weapons than the MISSILES typ. Swarms where more common for some time because they are technically LASER, but that has been counteracted by adding copies of all the other regular LASER type weapons to enemy lists.

/Edit:
Hey Estel, would you be able to submit your report within the next hours? Otherwhise I won't be able to include it in 1.229 immediately (I'll be of the grid for a bit).

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