Subset Games Forum

Here's some insight into potential patching problems:

The more mods you load at once, the more memory SMM will require for the process.
When SMM/java runs out of it will throw an exception and unless catched inside the program (which doesn't seem to be the case) can be considered crashed, so there's no need to wait any longer.
I just checked on my system and the default maximum allowed heap size for a java process is 256MB which isn't enough when EL comes into play.
But don't worry all you have to do is tell java your application requires more before starting like this from command line:
java -Xmx1024m -jar modman.jar
So unless SMM has some serious memory bug going on that should do the trick.
There should be nothing that keeps good old 32bit users locked out just yet, remember they can in theory address almost up to 4GB of memory, just make sure you don't have too many programs running stealing memory from SMM.

True, I'm running this on a 32b system myself, with extended java memory head space. 32b systems do not automatically prevent people from using the mod, but there seems to be some problems in SMM that prevent modding in to many blueprints (we had an EL build that applied multiple prefixes to weapons, that produced about 50.000 new blueprints) and that loading problem shows exclusively on 32b systems. Vhati mentioned that could be fixed by some modification in SMM and a new file tag instead of .append.

Sleeper Service wrote:post

> I'm not calling you stupid for modding it in, i call the Missile Drone stupid concept.

It pierces shields. Rather than just be able to take care of the regular Missiles on a Ship, you have to additionally focus the Drone Systems additionally to the Weapons and Shields Systems. You have no resources to focus 3 at once, especially when people are constantly repairing it and this scenario happens right in first 2 sectors where you have nothing.

Chances are high, before you can do anything your Weapons Systems are already kicked out thanks to that drone, while you are trying to repair that the Enemy Ship Missiles are dismantling the rest of your ship.

In the vanilla game, the Drones were deliberately designed not to be able to go through your shields, because you are either first taking out the Shields, or you are instantly focusing the Weapons (because Missiles). You still had a threat of a laser drone doing minor damage to the hull, but it still had to get through your shields first. And i assume the devs deliberately designed it that way, because they were aware of the fact that if you are freshly starting out on the new game, you cannot dedicate enough resources to immediately counteract to Shield, Missiles AND Drones at the first salve you shoot with your weapons.
And yes, probably the vanilla Red-Tail could do this, but then there is still the XX% dodge chance...

> Crew loss

That's debateable, but when you lose half of your crew just right before the last stand exactly because of garbage like that, it's just flat out bad. Due to the Event you already lose 1 Crew member and then you have to fight that high-teched rebel cruiser.
Your crew dies to an arbitrary combo of 2 Missile Drones that Stunlock them and set them on fire, while simultaneously people are boarding you, firing ship missiles at you and Ion Stun you.

> Tactical retreat

I can't consider any tactical retreat, especially since the mod already makes the game more difficult, i can't pass up any possibilities to get scrap. Anything else other than a win is an offset in fuel, a wasted turn and additional jump for the rebels.

I mean how many retreats should i do with that Gila Monster? First jump Auto Scout, 2nd Jump empty beacon, 3rd jump Auto Scout, 4th Jump Pirate Station with boarding and missiles, 5th jump Auto Scout, 6th Jump Missile Drone+Ship Rockets combination. At that point you are already in second sector and die to some other arbitrary combination that you can't do anything about because you are that offset on scrap.

> Strings
So about that part, i don't quite understand what exactly is preventing you from adding that 'r' at the end of 'Secto'.
Or adding those spaces to where they are supposed to be.

I'm sorry for being rude, but i'm pretty upset about the way to deliberately design player-inhibiting things in a way a player can't counteract them. Or when was the last time you saw in Binding of Isaac an item being taken away from you just because? (I also edit my posts alot, bad habit.)

Hominghead wrote:It pierces shields. Rather than just be able to take care of the regular Missiles on a Ship, you have to additionally focus the Drone Systems additionally to the Weapons and Shields Systems. You have no resources to focus 3 at once, especially when people are constantly repairing it and this scenario happens right in first 2 sectors where you have nothing.

Chances are high, before you can do anything your Weapons Systems are already kicked out thanks to that drone, while you are trying to repair that the Enemy Ship Missiles are dismantling the rest of your ship.

This is true for any ship with attack drones that can pose a thread, even in vanilla. At last missile drones wont start depleting your shields immediate and they all need a lot of power, so under some circumstance you can even disable disable them before they fire their first shot.

Hominghead wrote:That's debateable, but when you lose half of your crew just right before the last stand exactly because of garbage like that, it's just flat out bad. Due to the Event you already lose 1 Crew member and then you have to fight that high-teched rebel cruiser.
Your crew dies to an arbitrary combo of 2 Missile Drones that Stunlock them and set them on fire, while simultaneously people are boarding you, firing ship missiles at you and Ion Stun you.

That is a different story. I can't know how that fights went, but you obviously did not loose half your crew in that traitor event. This event merely has a chance to cost you one crew member, which can be negated by various things. Stun effects on missiles might get tuned down, but I kind of like how they make combat more vicious. Stun weapons are simply an AE reality you have to deal with. Overall the stun ion pose much less threat than their normal ion counterparts due to their way worse reload times.

Hominghead wrote:I can't consider any tactical retreat, especially since the mod already makes the game more difficult, i can't pass up any possibilities to get scrap. Anything else other than a win is an offset in fuel, a wasted turn and additional jump for the rebels.

I mean how many retreats should i do with that Gila Monster? First jump Auto Scout, 2nd Jump empty beacon, 3rd jump Auto Scout, 4th Jump Pirate Station with boarding and missiles, 5th jump Auto Scout, 6th Jump Missile Drone+Ship Rockets combination. At that point you are already in second sector and die to some other arbitrary combination that you can't do anything about because you are that offset on scrap.

Sector two barely puts much more against you in the Gila Monster, cause you just have to kill crew. Disarming ships with the big bomb is just as easy as always. IMO the game is not just about maximizing scrap, a lot depends on making the right decisions and making the best of what you get. If you do not want to consider retreat than this of course up to you, but you will have to bear the consequences.

Sleeper Service wrote:Hm, I only had it show me the trade event again, sometimes with blue options that I did not have the requirements for.

Same here

Sleeper Service wrote:Sorry, no way around that...

Except for using flak mechanics for swarm missiles - it won't show laser type, then sorry, couldn't stop myself.

Sleeper Service wrote:That is the first reaction that many people have to trading. The actual potential of trading is just not very obvious at first, but most player get around it eventually.

Agreed, thanks to IF space I actually learned how to properly use them. That skill stayed with me even for regular playthroughs without IF. Basically, the point is that you can sell them without long trading for some scrap (it's small reward then, but "free" and doesn't hurt), or be lucky/plan ahead and sell them, gaining scrap equivalent of more than 1 normal fight/per jump cycle (so, already considering increased rebel pursuit). The thing is, that with normal jump cycles, you can get empty beacon and gain nothing (fleet advance, you gained 0 scrap), or get damaged/use rockets/drones/lose crew member. Here you have GUARANTEED ~1.5 jump cycles gain, without risking anything. For rare strains of goods, it can get as high as 3x reward. even higher, if you gained it at 1st or 2nd sector, and sell in 2nd or 3th. Or in the same sector, if you're extremely lucky.

The thing to remember there, is that trading wasn't meant to be 100% reliable source of biiig income, like it is in some quasi-open ended games. As everything in FTL, it require careful planning and good relations with RGN. But, unlike other events, it still give you *small* reward, even if you're extremely unlucky (selling as regular item in shop).

Sleeper Service wrote: I'd say most people won't see your points as fair criticism if they are so rude by the way. I would't call the stuff you do in your free time retarded, even If I might think it is.

Sleeper Service wrote:I don't find this very polite and would prefer not to get insulted here.

Agreed. While I love the amount of new players AE caused, I'm a little concerned that *some* new people are clearly trying to bring our discussion level to much lower standard that it was before. First this funny blue-writing guy starts calling people "douchebags" just because his plea for help in fixing problem wasn't informative at all, and indicated he might be experiencing asked-thousand-times-before problem with not clearing backups (BTW, with this attitude, I'm wishing him all luck in earth with finding help - he will need it. Badly.).

Now, Hominghead jumps here and almost *demand* making game easier for his taste, indirectly calling you names in the process. The fact that all his points were discussed and explained ZILLION of times before doesn't matter, why care to read few previous pages. When we're at it:

Hominghead wrote:I can't consider any tactical retreat, especially since the mod already makes the game more difficult, i can't pass up any possibilities to get scrap.

Dude, maybe you should just try "easy" mode first? No offense here, just honest advice, considering things you seems to have problems with. CE is harsher, have lot new things, so you may prefer exploring it in easier difficulty, before jumping in for "real" ride.

Going back to behavior topic, I'm getting irritated at it, and if it won't stop immediately, I'm going to start getting moderator's interest on some of posts. And it's going to hurt, trust me. Just a honest warning to both of you, new guys - we're used to completely different discussion quality, here.

/Estel

Um, maybe so much finger pointing is not necessary and maybe we can just all try to keep it civil? Like everyone displaying respect for everyone? That would be cool from my perspective.

Estel wrote:Except for using flak mechanics for swarm missiles - it won't show laser type, then sorry, couldn't stop myself.

The game applies these categories automatically, so in your case it would call it "physical projectile blast" I think. Sorry.

Estel wrote:The thing is, that with normal jump cycles, you can get empty beacon and gain nothing (fleet advance, you gained 0 scrap), or get damaged/use rockets/drones/lose crew member. Here you have GUARANTEED ~1.5 jump cycles gain, without risking anything. For rare strains of goods, it can get as high as 3x reward. even higher, if you gained it at 1st or 2nd sector, and sell in 2nd or 3th. Or in the same sector, if you're extremely lucky.

Exactly, the main advantage in trading is that it removes risk.

There are also scenarios when trading does not result in actual time/beacon loss and there are augments that make it even more profitable.

Hominghead wrote:So about that part, i don't quite understand what exactly is preventing you from adding that 'r' at the end of 'Secto'.
Or adding those spaces to where they are supposed to be.

The fact that the game automatically cuts the sector names on the sector map (they should be displayed correctly on the beacon map) and the fact that the game generates these status messages automatically.

Estel wrote:First this funny blue-writing guy starts calling people "douchebags" just because his plea for help in fixing problem wasn't informative at all

Now hold on a minute. I didn't call the person a douchebag because the post was no help. I did it because of the TONE of the post. Telling me to 'RTF' or 'read the fucking' is insulting and assumes that I'm stupid/ignortant/lazy enough NOT to read the first post and the manual.

As it is... I kinda am stilling waiting on help... are the mods meant to clobber? If so, why does my game keeping freezing up whenever I play it with more than one mods?

Sleeper Service wrote:There are also scenarios when trading does not result in actual time/beacon loss and there are augments that make it even more profitable.

Like the Cargo Teleporter, which you get automatically from the Red Tail.

Yeah, I subscribe to no one calling anyone else any names here. That would be cool.

allanpike wrote:As it is... I kinda am stilling waiting on help... are the mods meant to clobber? If so, why does my game keeping freezing up whenever I play it with more than one mods?

The mods will give that clobbering message, but they are functional. Some people experienced a similar problem with the current version of Better Planets and Backgrounds. You can try if downgrading that mod or leaving it aside altogether works. Posting you load order might also help. But overall I can't do much besides providing a mod that works for me. If you post the problem in the SMM thread the guys there might be able to help you better.

allanpike wrote:As it is... I kinda am stilling waiting on help... are the mods meant to clobber? If so, why does my game keeping freezing up whenever I play it with more than one mods?

Clobbering basically means overwriting. SMM will give this message if one of the installed mods overwrites previous files entirely with its own version, instead of appending to them (which is the preferred way to mod stuff).

With CE, this error is displayed because of temporary files left in CE from the development process (the ones with ~ tilde at the end). They are not recognised by SMM as .append files, so when the next mod in your load order appends to the same file, it'll clobber the temporary file.

This does no harm at all, since the temporary files are never used by the game.

No idea about the crashing thing, but the obvious thought is that some of the mods you're installing aren't compatible with AE yet... But it's rather bizarre that the game crashes after an arbitrary amount of time, rather than in response to something. Background caching of images or other stuff, perhaps?

@TRT
We have tried all of that. The problem lies with SMM reading the files and recreating the XML structure to correct any errors. The manager doesn't crash, because patching is performed by a different thread in order to keep GUI responsive. However, since that thread never lets the GUI thread know it finished its job (the try-catch encapsulating the patching method catches Exception, whereas OutOfMemoryError is an Error), the progress bar keeps on spinning until the end of time...

However, it turns out the optimized 1.5 version is capable of patching current CE-EL, but it still needs to be released by Vhati.

kartoFlane wrote: However, it turns out the optimized 1.5 version is capable of patching current CE-EL, but it still needs to be released by Vhati.

Sounds good! Do you think that will be able to handle >50k of blueprints?