Subset Games Forum

Agent_L wrote:How does focusing on shields helps boarding-oriented builds?

To shut down their Med-lab maybe.

Agent_L wrote:How does focusing on shields helps missile-oriented builds?

Drones are there for a reason. If you are relying "Purely" on a missile build, you will run out without the use of Ion or Drones.

Tip - Shields counter drones, Ion and Laser.

Agent_L wrote:When all my energy weapons are ion, how does focusing on shields is of any importance?

You must not understand how Ion weapons work if you think focusing shields doesn't help.

Agent_L wrote:If you're assuming your reader is playing with laser-heavy build, at least state who you're talking to.

This applies to almost every conceivable build.


I'm entertained and somewhat disappointed how everyone treats this game like it revolves around in-depth strategy, trying to make things more complicated than they actually are.

The simple truth is, the AI sucks beyond all known bounds, the game is too exploitable, and takes little to no skill.

Danielstark wrote: ... fancy shmancy guides that have a billion steps, and require you to have weaponry not normally available. ... this plan only has one step:

...
focus shields
...
Guaranteed victory.


If you can't deal with the minimum of variables for this method, then play on Easy.

Alright, let's go step by step

The Nesasio (Stealth A) has no shield, not destroying the weapons subsystem will get you killed.
DA-SR 12 (Stealth B) has a weapon that takes 25 (22) seconds to charge, I'd like to see you play that without the 'fancy schmancy' tactics that you mock.
The Basilisk (Mantis B) doesn't have weapons, good luck taking down the shields.
The Carnelian (Crystal B) doesn't have weapons either, good luck taking down the shields, again.

Stealth B, Mantis B and Crystal B are severely handicapped early on, same goes for Stealth A and Mantis A to a lesser extent, unable to deal with certain situations (Drones and AI ships, respectively) effectively.

Without boarding (and in most cases even with) you cannot reliably win the game without random weapon drops, even on easy.

Even assuming you have enough firepower to pierce through the enemy shields, good luck doing so, when 40% of your shots are missing. Unless you have some serious firepower, you'll either be out of missiles or out of hull by the time you take the enemy down, when playing like this.

On pure missile builds requiring ion or drones; I dare say that would require weapons not normally available, no?

These are just a few of the problems with your 'strategy' that are clearly apparent, even on easy.

I won't disagree that this game isn't as hard as people make it out to be, but the best guides propose a near guaranteed way to victory, unless bad luck entirely screws you over. Your 'guide' and mockery of those that are actually in-depth is entirely nonsensical to the point where one must assume that you are trolling, or worse.

Leaving aside all other factors taking out the shield first can be a worse idea then knocking out the helm. Dropping the evasion to 0% makes everything else you want to do much easier. A few missiles into relatively fragile command deck and you can use vollys of lasers or other attacks to reliably knock out other systems.

Vaxter wrote:

Danielstark wrote: ... fancy shmancy guides that have a billion steps, and require you to have weaponry not normally available. ... this plan only has one step:

...
focus shields
...
Guaranteed victory.


If you can't deal with the minimum of variables for this method, then play on Easy.

Alright, let's go step by step

The Nesasio (Stealth A) has no shield, not destroying the weapons subsystem will get you killed.
DA-SR 12 (Stealth B) has a weapon that takes 25 (22) seconds to charge, I'd like to see you play that without the 'fancy schmancy' tactics that you mock.
The Basilisk (Mantis B) doesn't have weapons, good luck taking down the shields.
The Carnelian (Crystal B) doesn't have weapons either, good luck taking down the shields, again.

Stealth B, Mantis B and Crystal B are severely handicapped early on, same goes for Stealth A and Mantis A to a lesser extent, unable to deal with certain situations (Drones and AI ships, respectively) effectively.

Without boarding (and in most cases even with) you cannot reliably win the game without random weapon drops, even on easy.

Even assuming you have enough firepower to pierce through the enemy shields, good luck doing so, when 40% of your shots are missing. Unless you have some serious firepower, you'll either be out of missiles or out of hull by the time you take the enemy down, when playing like this.

On pure missile builds requiring ion or drones; I dare say that would require weapons not normally available, no?

These are just a few of the problems with your 'strategy' that are clearly apparent, even on easy.

I won't disagree that this game isn't as hard as people make it out to be, but the best guides propose a near guaranteed way to victory, unless bad luck entirely screws you over. Your 'guide' and mockery of those that are actually in-depth is entirely nonsensical to the point where one must assume that you are trolling, or worse.

Disregarding your extremely situational and far fetched scenario's, the weakness in your argument is that you are concerned about hull damage for the Bomber because the lack of shields, quite frankly if you fight the Boss with no shields, you're an idiot.

Need i remind you this is a Boss guide, not early game. Moreover is the fact that you are concerned about hull damage at all, ever heard of Drones, Evasion, shields, stealth, all are equally viable if you're not a complete moron, but perhaps i give you too much credit.

Focusing shields will give you victory, with any variable here, and with stunning success. Max hull i ever loose on the boss is 4-5 bars, usually no damage.

You're just another guy trying to making everything more complicated to satisfy your ego ?, who knows. I'm just sharing a simple method that works best with any variable.

Danielstark wrote: Focusing shields will give you victory, with any variable here, and with stunning success. Max hull i ever loose on the boss is 4-5 bars, usually no damage.

Danielstark wrote:Everything below "Focus shields" is a no-brainer. By that you are insinuating that people have no brains and can't figure out things that should go without saying.

The fact is that if all you do is focus shields, you will probably lose.
All of those things that go without saying are learned by experience, by not saying any of them you've missed the entire point of a guide, which is to help people that don't already know how to beat the game with their eyes closed.

Danielstark wrote: Disregarding your extremely situational and far fetched scenario's, ... if you fight the Boss with no shields, you're an idiot.

As far-fetched as (some of) my proposed scenarios might be, I was simply assuming:
- Not having to rely on random weapon drops/shops, this means no use of completely awesome weapons, such as an Ion Bomb
- Lack of knowledge about the game, and strictly following your guide > thus, destroying the shields subsystem (or at least, damaging it until the enemy has 0 shields) before focusing on anything else

As inefficient as it might be to fight the boss without shields, it is pointless to make a guide on the final boss, without first considering that the player has to get there in the first place. Don't forget that such a feat usually takes the average (careful) player 45 minutes, or longer, if at all. If you really want to take randomization out of play as much as possible, not only are certain ships simply not viable, but also is your proposed way of dealing with the boss simply not probable without any random drops.

Danielstark wrote: Need i remind you this is a Boss guide, not early game. Moreover is the fact that you are concerned about hull damage at all, ever heard of Drones, Evasion, shields, stealth, all are equally viable...

As stated above, you cannot entirely disregard the early game, as it is almost entirely necessary to prepare you for the final boss fight. Also, do not forget:
- (attack/defence) Drones are random (on most ships). While you can somewhat reliably purchase a drone system (again: assuming you plan your 'build' and have money left over for em), actually getting (the right) drones also goes by the rule of the die.
- Stealth (/Shields, depending on ship) is the most expensive upgrade, at 150c (I believe the Fed. cruiser can't even get it), again assuming careful play.

Without preparing the player for the boss fight, you cannot assume the player to have all that by then.
Assuming your guide is the first and only source of knowledge a newbie seeks, they will not know what the final boss even does, and what setup their ship requires. Apart from viability issues (to that, later), your 'guide' assumes the player is fully prepared to use your tactic effectively. It entirely falls apart when you don't have/need and shield disrupting weapons, which is indeed a viable playstyle.

Danielstark wrote: Focusing shields will give you victory, with any variable here, and with stunning success. Max hull i ever loose on the boss is 4-5 bars, usually no damage.

I do not doubt your ability to achieve victory, and I would not discredit your tactic all things considered, but the flaw in your guide is that it simply does not consider everything.
There would be no need for criticism, had you carefully explained (a lot) further than just "shoot the shields or play on easy".
You did not even mention having "Drones, Evasion (Engines), Shields, Stealth", how is anyone with limited knowledge about the game supposed you need a combination of those?

Danielstark wrote: You're just another guy trying to making everything more complicated to satisfy your ego ?, who knows. I'm just sharing a simple method that works best with any variable.

The problem is, as stated by myself many times before, that your guide is not detailed enough.
And not only is your guide not detailed enough, but this statement (underlined) is simply wrong. Shooting the shields first is indeed not the most efficient way to go, as the cheapest way to beat the boss is boarding, which is indeed a fancy schmancy tactic, and not easy if you're not used to it. In fact, the shields tend to be the last thing I take down, and is of course mentioned in other guides aswell.

Lastly,

Danielstark wrote:...if you're not a complete moron, but perhaps i give you too much credit.

As much as I enjoy your wording in that, constructive criticism is best kept as objective as possible, so I suggest you drop it.

Vaxter wrote: As far-fetched as (some of) my proposed scenarios might be, I was simply assuming:
- Not having to rely on random weapon drops/shops, this means no use of completely awesome weapons, such as an Ion Bomb

I agree. The OP's main problem is that you must have weapons that either bypass shield or can drop shield quickly (and if you rely on weapon that bypass shield, which are mostly missiles required, you must save up quite a lot of missiles).

Vaxter wrote: I do not doubt your ability to achieve victory, and I would not discredit your tactic all things considered, but the flaw in your guide is that it simply does not consider everything.
There would be no need for criticism, had you carefully explained (a lot) further than just "shoot the shields or play on easy".
You did not even mention having "Drones, Evasion (Engines), Shields, Stealth", how is anyone with limited knowledge about the game supposed you need a combination of those?

You said it. That's pretty much the whole problem I had with his guide. I was wondering "How the hell do you deal with his triple missile launcher if...
A. You have low evasion.
B. You have just 1 defense drone (or no drone).
C. You stealth is on cool down.
Even if you have A and B, it take quite a lot of luck to...
1. Hope the boss's missiles doesn't hit your weapon, or worse, your engine/helm (which drop your evasion) or shield.
2. Hope that his ion doesn't lock your shield down enough for beam to bypass it (can hit through 1 shield) or his laser to drop it and hit your system.

Vaxter wrote: The problem is, as stated by myself many times before, that your guide is not detailed enough.
And not only is your guide not detailed enough, but this statement (underlined) is simply wrong. Shooting the shields first is indeed not the most efficient way to go, as the cheapest way to beat the boss is boarding, which is indeed a fancy schmancy tactic, and not easy if you're not used to it. In fact, the shields tend to be the last thing I take down, and is of course mentioned in other guides aswell.

I will agree on that . Boarding is almost always a guaranteed starting "punch" to win the boss fight (obviously you can't win on boarding alone, and you need some way to deal with stage 2's drones).
A bit lacking in missile defense department? Board the boss' missile battery (grab any two, as long as its not engie, or maybe zoltan, wait for initial cloak to drop and send them over). Then proceed onto beam and ion.

In fact, I would argue that Teleporter is a guaranteed leg-up in boss fight, for the following reason.
1. It cost just 75 scrap.
2. It doesn't need to "charge up" before firing (your crew will take time to destroy the weapon they're teleported to, but with just one enemy there with no support, your crew is guaranteed to survive on enemy ship).
3. It's not impacted by being damaged (the ion cool-down progresses regardless of its damage state. And once its cooled down, the instant you repair it you can use it immediately). And once you beam someone over to the boss's weapon system, random damage the boss dealt to your teleporter does not effect your crew (unless, of course, your crew is about to die).
4. It require just 1 power, and can be cycled off quickly if it's not being cooled down (there are tricks to "recover" the energy while it's still cooling down, but I consider that an exploit).

In short, even if by some bad luck you don't have sufficient weapons or defense system, after you survive the boss's initial barrage before you drop his weapons, all you need is three shield to have more than enough time to.
1. Focus down the shield with weak weapons (one of my engi ship run ended with my ship having just enough power in weapon to power one ion 2 and pike beam plus two attack drones. Combined with cloak and the fact that I can only ion the shield which wears off after cloak, means that I literally set everything to autofire. Took about 10 minutes to kill stage 1 boss).
2. Kill all crew in main body, have easier time in stage 2 and 3 (most my playthrough ended that way, only one lonely dude in laser while I set the rest of the ship on fire).

TLDR - Teleporter strategy against boss guarantees disabled weapons, which buys you time, a lot of time.

Actually, upon careful thinking, I finally pin-point what's wrong with OP's supposed "guide".

OP's guide to winning the boss fight, in Chess equivalent, is this:

Stage 1: Check

Stage 2: Check

Stage 3: Check

Guaranteed checkmate.

Yes, dropping the shield is required to win boss fight, but OP's guide is useless in that he/she never explain HOW to get to the "focus on shield enough to drop it" point.

The strategy guide he called "fancy shmancy guides that have a billion steps" all effectively plot out the lead-up to breaking through the boss's defense.

"You do this, this, this, and this. And that will give you the best chance to/have time to break through the boss's defense."

Danielstark wrote:Everything below "Focus shields" is a no-brainer. By that you are insinuating that people have no brains and can't figure out things that should go without saying.

Danielstark wrote:Just trying to help out the new people

How would a new player know to leave one rebel crew member alive?

A small message board for helpful tips like this could probably use a little less hostility. Why not go to 4chan or Something Awful?

Kenshkrix wrote: All of those things that go without saying are learned by experience, by not saying any of them you've missed the entire point of a guide, which is to help people that don't already know how to beat the game with their eyes closed.

Exactly this. I was attempting to give new and struggling people a shove in the right direction without spoiling one of the more interesting aspects of the game (learning).

Is that so freaking hard to understand ?

There is not, and should not be any strict formula for a guide. This one is directed at people that don't want to be treated like a baby and/or have their intelligence insulted. Well i'm sorry to let all you babies down in that regard.

I would sincerely like to reply to everyone, but time is precious and since i'm not playing FTL anymore, i don't really see the point.

Good day, and apologies that my Boss guide was too straight forward.