EULA?

General discussion about the game.
UltraMantis
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Re: EULA?

Post by UltraMantis »

Brilliand wrote:...I think the most common boilerplate forbids selling/giving away, examining its inner workings, and modding...
None of those can be enforced in practise. I honestly belive they are stating it because a) they are required to inform their customers. And b) because in the unlikely event of taking legal action against a party that caused them damages, GoG would need some form of agreement that states what is allowed and what is not.

Selling and giving away are impossible when no physical copies exist. Digital distributors cannot keep track of intangible stock and it would be too easy to hurt their sales by selling on or giving away. GoG's entire catalogue is available for download illegaly, and pirates who buy their games recoup the money via filesharing. This is a fair restriction in my opinion. Yes you will be stuck with the game forever and can't sell it on, but the price of digital distribution is lower because there are no manufacturing or physical distribution costs. Not to mention the convenience of having up to date installers available for download at any time.

Reverse engineering and dissasembly are allways refused but never prosecuted unless there is enough evidence of creating a derived product and screwing GoG and the copyright holders out of their money by selling it. In practise though, unless there are damages to be sued for, the point is moot because dissasembling the game and modifying it is both harmless and undetectable.

Modding games in particular is generally encouraged because it helps popularity and sales. Officially, modding is usually illegal, but overlooked.
Brilliand wrote:I don't think they've actually put their normal practice in their EULA; by all appearances, this is their most ordinary, boilerplate EULA, and all it says is that I can use the program, but can't [big list of things that I boiled down to sell/lend/give/modify] it. Maybe their terms of use says something about it... Nope, that's the same deal; a big list of rights I don't have and responsibilities I do have, with a bunch of stuff about how super important and enforceable it is.

I can see how the "infinite number of copies" policy might make allowing sales of the software tricky; I can see how someone might cause a lot of trouble by selling their copy of the game, then downloading another, then selling that, etc. I don't think that would actually work, though, because the understood agreement is a specific amount of money for a copy of the game; at worst it could make things more confusing for the judge.
As mentioned above, you can't sell, lend, or give it away because it doesn't exist physically, and because GoG never removes the purchased game from your account. The download links will allways be there.

Modifying i don't understand. I don't understand what they mean by modify. You are not allowed to modify the inner workings of the game because only the developers have that right. But that is too obvious, and even if you did modify the game, you would have to release the modified product, claim copyright over it, then distribute it as your own and make money from it.

I think it's a fair enough point. The code, game engine and all the artwork are part of the download and part of the game you play. It's fair to state that it belongs to the authors and not you. That does not mean you are not allowed to play mods or create them. Only that you are not allowed to both modify and distribute original game parts as your own work. Mods listed on the forum are distributed without original game data and require the use of an unofficial Mod Manager. This tool then re-packs game files and a modified game can be played. The legal status of this is in limbo. Technically it's illegal, but unofficially it is a fun and creative way to enhance the game and the developers are not against it as long as original game data is not distributed by mod makers. It would be very difficult to put that into legalspeak, esp. by GoG.

It's only really neccesary to make such analy specific contract terms because of cheaters and abusers. You are not one of them, you should not take offense. Some EULAs take advantage of the fact that people don't read them, and some in the past have made ridiculous restrictions on fair users (and those restrictions were completely ignored by pirates). The responsibility for abiding by the terms of the agreement is entirely up to you. I can't imagine you'd have any unpleasent experiences after agreeing to those GoG terms, except that you cannot sell the game.

It's taken a while to write this post. Been writing it on and off with several interruptions. My apologies if parts repeat or end up preachy. ;)
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Farlark
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Re: EULA?

Post by Farlark »

Brilliand wrote:I think the real reason I'm doing this isn't so much that I'm not OK with the specific terms (though I do dislike all four of the restrictions I mentioned), but more that I dislike EULAs in general, and am making a stand on principle.
Why, of all places, are you making a general stand against EULA's on the FTL forums? What do you hope to accomplish?

*rolls eyes*

Most. Inane. Troll. Thread. Ever.
UltraMantis
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Re: EULA?

Post by UltraMantis »

I don't think it's a troll thread at all. And why not these forums? Anyone not satisfied with their purchase ought to be able to complain. FTLForum, GoG community and Humble Bundle are all appropriate places to voice displeasure.

Don't forget that he is a paying customer.
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Farlark
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Re: EULA?

Post by Farlark »

UltraMantis wrote:I don't think it's a troll thread at all. And why not these forums? Anyone not satisfied with their purchase ought to be able to complain. FTLForum, GoG community and Humble Bundle are all appropriate places to voice displeasure.

Don't forget that he is a paying customer.
Alright, those are fair points. I do agree with the OP on one major point; we should be able to read EULAs before purchasing non-refundable games.
boa13
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Re: EULA?

Post by boa13 »

I agree with UltraMantis that, having purchased FTL, the original poster is certainly on-topic discussing the specific terms of the EULA that was presented to him, and what can be improved, and what is bothering.

I also think that this is not the appropriate place to discuss software licensing in general, contracts, EULAs, etc., beyond how they apply to FTL. For more general discussion / debate, please go to more appropriate forums. At the very least, open a new topic in the General Off Topic sub-forum. :)
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CrashSanders
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Re: EULA?

Post by CrashSanders »

I might sound rough and ignorant, but why do care about what written in EULA - especially when it's about you and vendor? You afraid to be swindled?

Also I use Steam to buy games so I have no problems with that. And it's also solves "doesn't run on specific computer" problem. You can download Steam client everywhere you wish (it's just about their stupid Steam Guard system which raising the alarm even when I log in on the same computer via Opera instead of Steam Client and unability to run game without Steam running) and install game you own with a single click or two.
I don't know though, maybe someone just don't like the idea of having a client that have all your games enlisted with ability to download and play them... you can even input a key of a CD you own (I did so with Warhammer 40k Soulstorm)!

Anyway, it's you to decide. If you'll have your refund, I'll suggest to make a Steam account and buy FTL from Steam store.
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Brilliand
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Re: EULA?

Post by Brilliand »

Farlark wrote:Why, of all places, are you making a general stand against EULA's on the FTL forums? What do you hope to accomplish?
In part because I expected better. FTL and GOG are DRM-free, so good in that respect, and I assumed that they would be avoiding the big players' misbehavior in other ways too. It's easier to fight a battle on the front lines than deep in enemy territory. :) Anyway, it appears Subset Games is actually living up to my expectations; not sure what's up with GOG.

Well, I've bought the game through Humble Bundle, and plugged the Steam key into my Steam account, so now I've got the best of both worlds. (I actually do use Steam - I have 5 games in there that I own only through Steam, but mostly I treat it like a download manager for Humble Bundle.)

I hadn't realized that Humble Bundle sold anything besides their pay-what-you-want bundles. Is selling games individually for fixed prices a common thing for them, or did they pretty much make an exception for FTL?

(Oh, and I did get the refund from GOG. Christmas probably slowed them down.)
ExtraCheesyPie
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Re: EULA?

Post by ExtraCheesyPie »

Brilliand wrote:
Off the top of my head, I've bought at least two games from Humble Bundle that didn't have an EULA attached (The Binding of Isaac)
That's because Ed McMillen (The dev) said he doesn't care if people pirate it, he already hit his quota for sales.
I hate FTL...

But I love it at the same time...
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