FTL Captain's Edition 1.308/Inf 1.301b/EL 1.308

Distribute and discuss mods that are functional. Moderator - Grognak
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stylesrj
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.28d/Inf 1.28/EL 1.28

Postby stylesrj » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:12 pm

Yeah, I'd love to do that but there are only so many scenarios where you can justify the store being active before and after the fight (there is no way to spawn stores, and without spawning store you can't mark a beacon as store) The pirate store fight event already goes through a lot to explain that you can shop, then fight, than shop again.


Justification is easy enough and probably lore-friendly too.

You're going shopping, hoping your fake ID won't get you tagged by the cruiser. But then after an incident at the bar, you accidentally set the Rebels off and they prepare their ship for combat (complete with hilarious ship name).
Afterwards, well you just destroyed a cruiser. Of course no one is going to touch you while you shop.

Either that or you're visiting a black market when the cruiser arrives. Maybe they were looking for contraband too :lol:
meklozz
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.28d/Inf 1.28/EL 1.28

Postby meklozz » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:41 pm

Sleeper Service wrote:Yeah, I'd love to do that but there are only so many scenarios where you can justify the store being active before and after the fight (there is no way to spawn stores, and without spawning store you can't mark a beacon as store) The pirate store fight event already goes through a lot to explain that you can shop, then fight, than shop again. :roll:


I'm not sure I get what you want to do (I don't know the events you're talking about), but couldn't you disable the store after the fight by adding an asteroid field or an asb to the destroyed/deadcrew events?
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Sleeper Service
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.28d/Inf 1.28/EL 1.28

Postby Sleeper Service » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:35 pm

meklozz wrote:I'm not sure I get what you want to do (I don't know the events you're talking about), but couldn't you disable the store after the fight by adding an asteroid field or an asb to the destroyed/deadcrew events?
Hm, does that work? Anyone tested that?

stylesrj wrote:You're going shopping, hoping your fake ID won't get you tagged by the cruiser. But then after an incident at the bar, you accidentally set the Rebels off and they prepare their ship for combat (complete with hilarious ship name).
Afterwards, well you just destroyed a cruiser. Of course no one is going to touch you while you shop.

Either that or you're visiting a black market when the cruiser arrives. Maybe they were looking for contraband too :lol:
Yeah there are ways to spin it, but probably not without changing most of the original shop texts. The whole idea of scaring an entire planet or rebel base into submission by battling their cruiser kind of strikes me as a little far stretched. But if spawning hostile ASB really disables the shop that might be something to consider then. I'd assume it would, cause you are in danger... then again hostile ASB despawns when jumping to another beacon (just tested that), so that would already allow for an exploit to visit the shop regardless.
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stylesrj
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.28d/Inf 1.28/EL 1.28

Postby stylesrj » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:58 pm

Yeah there are ways to spin it, but probably not without changing most of the original shop texts. The whole idea of scaring an entire planet or rebel base into submission by battling their cruiser kind of strikes me as a little far stretched.


So does a single automated ship with construction markings threatening an entire planet. "Oh no! It'll destroy our planet if you don't help out, Federation Cruiser! You've only got a million years to save our world from destruction! There is no time to waste!"

Ok the ship threatens a colony but it's still the same principle really. You destroy a cruiser and the base surrenders because well holy crap you took out the RS Money Can Buy Many Peanuts! It'll be a few days/hours before the next cruiser will arrive and there's the advancing Rebel fleet and the focus on the Flagship... just show them your wares and let em on their merry way.

But if spawning hostile ASB really disables the shop that might be something to consider then. I'd assume it would, cause you are in danger... then again hostile ASB despawns when jumping to another beacon (just tested that), so that would already allow for an exploit to visit the shop regardless.


Your fake ship ID obviously works again.
Not like they're going to look out the windows and check to see if that Mantis Cruiser is the same one that kicked their butts last time. :lol:
meklozz
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.28d/Inf 1.28/EL 1.28

Postby meklozz » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:54 pm

You're right, once a store shows up, nothing short of the rebel fleet seems to be able to stop it appearing when you jump back to it's beacon. Even if you run away from a ship fight there, it will still give you a store - even before making you fight, actually.

Do you know if <fleet>rebel/fed/battle</fleet> tag actually does anything? I thought it might force something, but it looks like it only works when the actual (hardcoded?) rebel fleet gets there? Maybe it makes the proper backgrounds appear?

Still, making you pay fuel and time for going back to a store like that doesn't seem entirely exploit-y. It's a fair price, I guess.

By the way, CE has some events that replace surrender/escape, right? Did you notice that running away from a fight once one of those is activated makes the ship disappear from the sector map, even if hostile? Seems that's a thing, too. I mean, it makes sense, but I had no idea.
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Sleeper Service
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.28d/Inf 1.28/EL 1.28

Postby Sleeper Service » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:37 am

meklozz wrote:Do you know if <fleet>rebel/fed/battle</fleet> tag actually does anything? I thought it might force something, but it looks like it only works when the actual (hardcoded?) rebel fleet gets there? Maybe it makes the proper backgrounds appear?
Well it displays fleets in the background, and if a hostile ASB is spawned it wlll originate from a Rebel Cruiser. I think this tag only works when being contained in the first event capsule of a beacons, or at least there were some circumstances where it doesn't take effect for some reason.

meklozz wrote:By the way, CE has some events that replace surrender/escape, right? Did you notice that running away from a fight once one of those is activated makes the ship disappear from the sector map, even if hostile? Seems that's a thing, too. I mean, it makes sense, but I had no idea.


meklozz wrote:Still, making you pay fuel and time for going back to a store like that doesn't seem entirely exploit-y. It's a fair price, I guess.
Yeah, but there is still no way to explain this to the player cause you cant spawn a new event at the store. I'd assume people would start report that as a bug or exploit and I'm getting nagged about minor inconsistencies in the mod enough already. :D People are super smug about the Pirate store fight event alone, so I probably won't push that further.
I just find the whole scenario more believable when gone through on pirate worlds. Sure, you can try to give explanations (although you can't explain why you can shop when you jump back there, cause no event spawns), but as mentioned I don't want to display the Rebels as too incompetent/helpless. Bashing up their cruiser and then going for an impulse buy to the near corner store kind of makes it look like you can do whatever you want right there in Rebel territory. I find the Pirate store event more believable cause it takes place in lawless space where no one really cares.
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stylesrj
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.28d/Inf 1.28/EL 1.28

Postby stylesrj » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:33 am

Bashing up their cruiser and then going for an impulse buy to the near corner store kind of makes it look like you can do whatever you want right there in Rebel territory. I find the Pirate store event more believable cause it takes place in lawless space where no one really cares.


Well why doesn't the Rebel Fleet advance much faster in Rebel-controlled sectors then (and especially in the Stronghold?) if you're concerned about people doing what they want in Rebel territory :P

I like to think of them as recently-conquered territory. The enforcers are in, the Federation is out but they still haven't locked down everything so you have some freedom but watch out for those tracking devices, forward scouts and the RS Monetary Exchange while they're out shopping for that Burst Laser II.

Or it's a black market and that Rebel ship was in the neighbourhood. So that means you have enough time for shopping but not for goods exchanges afterwards.

The main reason I want the event is not because of how BS it'd be to encounter but because Rebel cruisers normally have silly names appropriate to the situation at hand. Having ones for stores would give players a good laugh before they get wrecked.
Captain Trek
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.28d/Inf 1.28/EL 1.28

Postby Captain Trek » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:17 am

So I'm confused. In the OP of this thread it says you guys are done with CE and the last update made to that OP was a year ago (almost exactly a year ago, in fact), but going by the discussion you seem like you're still updating and improving this mod. What gives?

EDIT: Huh. Guess I never did post to this forum after joining it. Odd...
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Sleeper Service
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.28d/Inf 1.28/EL 1.28

Postby Sleeper Service » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:34 pm

"Done" as in "not developing major new components for the mod". I'm still fixing problems whenever they are reported and now and then I consider small additions to the mod if making them isn't too time consuming.
ledtim
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.28d/Inf 1.28/EL 1.28

Postby ledtim » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:38 pm

Hi, I've been playing FTL for a while, and recently came across your mod.

I have an odd hobby, in that when I get into a game, I spend about as much time thinking and analyzing games as actually playing them.

I've made a spreadsheet for myself analyzing DPS and DPS/Power for drones, artillery, and weapons in the game, and been doing some other random analysis and thought of some suggestions.
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I think it's perfectly fine for some weapons and equipments to be better than some others in the vast majority of situations, but I think even "bad" weapons need to have something going for them that makes you choose it some times. Here's some I noticed that have nothing or very little going for them compared to their competitors.

1. Adaptive Effector
Fully charged, it is 3 power, 18 cooldown, 3 ion damage.
Compare the heavy effector (which has same cost in shops and lower rarity). 2 power, 26 cooldown, 4 ion damage.
The ion DPS is very similar, and that's AFTER adaptive effector fully charged, and heavy effector uses the 1 less power. Fully charged up, up 3x from it's initial values, adaptive effector still has the lowest DPS/power out of all the effector weapons.

I had to double check the numbers, because it's the only weapon that's blatantly horrible in the mod compared to others in the family. Even chain ion which isn't too great, has superior DPS and DPS/power compared to most other ion weapons when fully charged up.

2. Hadur Mine
Compare to Frigg and hull missile (the one that does 4 damage to systemless rooms). Hadur is inferior to a hull missile that hits systemless rooms in every way in combat. Hadur is a lot cheaper in shops, I'll concede, and it has some empty beacon utility (which I don't think really makes up for the inferiority). But also, compare to the Frigg, which costs 1 power, and has 12 sec CD compared to hadur's 20, which means that Hadur actually has less DPS than Frigg, while using more power. Of course, Hadur is bit more efficient in missile use, but it's only the difference between 4 damage/missile to 3 damage/missile.

3.
Defense turret mark I seems to be just worse than Mark II?
It's an old outdated model, so it makes sense it'd be inferior, but shouldn't it at least cost less in shops? Clearance sale, 50% off?

4. Swarm missile drone
-10% fire chance, -10% breach chance, -1 system damage, , -1sec stun, -15 crew damage for -10 store scrap cost (-12%) compared to the heavy-antiship missile drone, to which it is identical in all other aspects.
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Kestrel C.
I don't get this ship really. It was one of the lackluster ships in vanilla, but it became quite possibly the worst ship in the game in CE, and it doesn't exactly have a fun gimmick either.

Its weapons seem to just not work together very well. Baton beam is a very odd choice on a ship that doesn't start with other crew killing weapons or a teleporter. It takes forever to kill any ship and it gets boring, even in sector 1. Some ideas to change the ship, not all of them are meant to be used together:

Add the augment that disables enemy life support. Already takes forever to kill a ship, might as well as try to wait them out while stunning the crew and disabling the ship. Kinda themey with the lanius on board, who's otherwise just there.

Give baton and bo beams some sort of buffs? Longer stun? Breach chance? I find that I rarely end up using those weapons if I have any other choice. I didn't list these up there, because they do fill a unique role, but in my experience, there are almost always better choices, whether for crew killing or system damaging. For example, compare baton beam to hasta beam. Only thing baton beam has over hasta is 1sec less cooldown and 5 sec stun on crew hit. Hasta beam has 35 length compared to baton's 25 length, chance for fire, 1 hull damage per room hit, the same crew and system damage. One radical change would be to give baton and bo some shield piercing, and replace the flak with a light laser (and maybe add a basic laser), turning the Swallow into the second non-boarding crew killing ship other than the slug A.

Replace flak with a weapon like a dual laser that can hit specific rooms reliably, so at least the enemy crew can be whittled down faster and more reliably.

Add a 2nd baton beam so crew can be killed a bit faster, or ships can be more disabled throughly.
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Bloated shops and crew killing weapons

I find that in CE, it's much harder to find useful stuff in shops compared to the vanilla game. I think one of the prime culprits is anti-crew weapons. CE added more than 10 weapons (maybe 20 if drones are included, I haven't done an exact count) that mostly do nothing but damage crew, compared to vanilla's single very rare anti-bio beam. Thing is, only a fraction of typical runs need or want crew damaging weapons, and they don't need too many of them. And fire weapons tend to serve the same purpose of damaging the crew without damaging the ship too much and have the same weaknesses against auto-ships [I suppose the one time anti-crew weapons and fire weapons have different strength/weakness pattern is against Lanius and hologram crew ships, when fire is ineffective while anti-crew remains effective, especially so against holograms. But you only run into those ships quite rarely].

And the light laser series are all quite similar to each other (is there really a need for light Scatter II that has 1 second higher cooldown while doing 15 more crew damage than light scatter I? Or for that matter, is there really a need for the light scatter series? Compared to the light laser series, per salvo, they effectively do little more breaching and have a little less cooldown in exchange for 1 less shield piercing.), and anti-crew drones tend to be not great since they hit random rooms. I find most of the crew damaging weapons and drones I come across to be dead spaces in shops for these reasons. I think the problem of cluttered shops would improve a lot, if some of the similar weapons in the light laser series were pruned. Another less drastic change would be to raise the rarities of crew damaging weapons and drones considerably (I wouldn't mind if all the light laser and light scatter laser series to have 5 rarity. So many of them and they are very similar) so they appear in shops less.

===
Oh, and a minor suggestion to close it out. The laser charger that can charge up to 3 times has the identical long and short name as the one that can charge 2 times. Maybe they can be given the "Mark #" treatment.