FTL Captain's Edition 1.308/Inf 1.301b/EL 1.308

Distribute and discuss mods that are functional. Moderator - Grognak
moop
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby moop » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:55 pm

Sleeper Service wrote:Odd, this should work. Maybe try redownloading and reinstalling infinite.


Afraid not :( I even tried a different load order, which, oddly, everything still worked fine except for Infinite.

I guess it's back to an older version of CE for my Infinite good times.
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Sleeper Service
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Sleeper Service » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:30 pm

Ok so there is still the option to make a clean install of both FTL and the mod manager and then reinstall the mods. Again, technically the mod is in order. This should work. :|

Biohazard063 wrote:Drone parts are still quite valuable. And giving up three can be costly. Unlike mine launchers, they also don't require the investment of getting drone control.
Sure this doesn't mean anything if you start of with drone controll, but then again, every ship starts with weapons (usually...). And depending on the amount of weapon slots you have, you can just keep it in a weapons slot and never use it in combat.
And face it, most people when they get drone control, it's not for offensive purposes unless they are forced to take that route.
Again, the whole re-roll the fight only popped in because I got that event. The main idea I wanted to pitch was being able to delay the fleet after winning a fight against it.

To begin with the drone option was never meant to be very cost efficient. Again, I still don't see why drone systems would need this additional perk and why the player should be able to escape that easily when having combat drones equipped. Free escape is different from gaining a jump on empty beacons. I'm generally opposed to partly enabling empty beacon options after fights, cause this creates inconsistency. Right now the mod implies that you can only do empty beacon stuff at empty beacons because you have the time there, which is at least somewhat consistent. If you can delay the fleet with drones after a fight, why can't you lay minefields after each battle or chat to your crew? Of course the reason is that these options need to appear in controlled, quantifiable circumstances to be balanced against other options.

R4V3-0N wrote:Didn't make much bug reports for CE but I noticed under the blue option at an empty beacon for the zoltan cruiser (I specificlly used the type B but I assume all 3 types work here..) that it says " 1. (Zoltan ship) Upgrade you teleporter devices..." ... I think it meant your....

Your what? :D Well the option says:
(Zoltan Ship) Upgrade you teleporter devices with late stage shield phase technology. [ Scrap: -70; Augment: Zoltan Shield Bypass ]

But yeah, I can see that this isn't exactly consistent if you don't have a teleporter yet... should probably be rephrased.
Artamba
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Artamba » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:42 pm

Sleeper Service wrote:To begin with the drone option was never meant to be very cost efficient. Again, I still don't see why drone systems would need this additional perk and why the player should be able to escape that easily when having combat drones equipped. Free escape is different from gaining a jump on empty beacons. I'm generally opposed to partly enabling empty beacon options after fights, cause this creates inconsistency.


Hey, brother! I find it pretty great that you understand why you implemented things one way or another, while resisting the usual 'I want MORE COOLNESS, and MORE POWER, AND MORE EASINESS!' suggestions who are made by people who don't take the time to think out why a mechanic they don't enjoy is that way. Like people asking to make it easy to get out of the shittiest situation you can get into (out of fuel facing a Tech Cruiser), for example. For the first time I am actually scared to the point of my pants flying off at the prospect of running out of fuel; I actually have to PLAN ahead or face actual(er) consequences!
You should have seen my face the first time I found myself at a beacon that didn't connect to the exit. Usually I can dive back under the oncomming tidal wave and make it out alive, but damn, I only NEARLY made it past the first guy! heh
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stylesrj
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:17 am

Artamba wrote:Like people asking to make it easy to get out of the shittiest situation you can get into (out of fuel facing a Tech Cruiser), for example. For the first time I am actually scared to the point of my pants flying off at the prospect of running out of fuel; I actually have to PLAN ahead or face actual(er) consequences!


But that's the thing. I'm already scared of running out of fuel in CE. My main concern is when it happens in CE infinite.

Running out of fuel there can happen through no fault of your own. Since any event can occur (like... automated ships, followed by boarding parties then a Mantis raider who doesn't carry any fuel ever) in Deep Space and upgrades are expensive and stores are rare, even if you plan to jump to as many connecting beacons as possible (to scout out for a store) being out of fuel is easier than you think.

What could be done is that encounters with the Rebel fleet are toned down in intensity during CE Infinite. There's so much for the Rebels to grab and they can't spare all those cool cruisers to every frontier. Being caught by a light ship loaded with fuel would make a lot of sense lore-wise.

Regular CE can bring out the Tech Cruisers and stuff, because you're supposed to be legit afraid of running out of fuel there.

You should have seen my face the first time I found myself at a beacon that didn't connect to the exit. Usually I can dive back under the oncomming tidal wave and make it out alive, but damn, I only NEARLY made it past the first guy! heh


I once had an exit beacon halfway through a sector where the only connection was a single beacon at the very start. Being the foolish idiot I was, I didn't plan ahead and ignored that path completely to pursue a quest beacon in the rest of that sector. It was only after doubling back, I realised... I would be so deep in Rebel territory that I went "Might as well not play out the rest of this and restart. I'll be doing that anyway after I die slowly and painfully."
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steamtex
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby steamtex » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:47 am

stylesrj wrote:lots of words


This is all too true. I haven't died to an enemy ship in CE Infinite even once. But I haven't won in CE Infinite, either, because I always run out of fuel before I can go anywhere.
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stylesrj
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Fri Jul 31, 2015 1:23 am

Just don't come up to the Flagship with only a Chain Vulcan though. You will not get past Phase 3.
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Biohazard063
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Biohazard063 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:06 am

Artamba wrote:Hey, brother! I find it pretty great that you understand why you implemented things one way or another, while resisting the usual 'I want MORE COOLNESS, and MORE POWER, AND MORE EASINESS!' suggestions who are made by people who don't take the time to think out why a mechanic they don't enjoy is that way. Like people asking to make it easy to get out of the shittiest situation you can get into (out of fuel facing a Tech Cruiser), for example.

No need to be offensive towards others about it, just because an idea isn't immediately accepted and still being discussed doesn't make it a bad idea. And doesn't mean there wasn't any thought that went into it. Uploaded my first video of FTL with CE on 23 Oct 2013, and I'm not saying that to pull rank or anything, just that I've seen CE change over all this time and been playing it for just as long. The earliest version that I mention on that series is 1.069.
Sleeper Service wrote:To begin with the drone option was never meant to be very cost efficient. Again, I still don't see why drone systems would need this additional perk and why the player should be able to escape that easily when having combat drones equipped. Free escape is different from gaining a jump on empty beacons. I'm generally opposed to partly enabling empty beacon options after fights, cause this creates inconsistency. Right now the mod implies that you can only do empty beacon stuff at empty beacons because you have the time there, which is at least somewhat consistent. If you can delay the fleet with drones after a fight, why can't you lay minefields after each battle or chat to your crew? Of course the reason is that these options need to appear in controlled, quantifiable circumstances to be balanced against other options..

Phrasing it that way does shed a different light on things.
I don't really get why you'd see it as a free escape as you would still have to win a fight against a fleet ship in order to take the blue option to delay the fleet to begin with.
Besides, if you do it when you're out of fuel, you're probably going to get caught right after again anyway...
I've abandoned the idea of re-rolling fights against the fleet and single ship distraction.
I mean, you're allowed other blue options... cloaking, scrap rec arm (? and if so, yes, only a pittance is gained, which is good.).
Well, if you want it to stand out from the empty beacons option, you could increase the cost of it to say 5 drone parts.
And I suppose the same could be done for the mine layer... increase the cost to "frantically put up a mine field to help your escape".
Anyway you've convinced me though with the whole "in a controlled environment" thing.
Maybe I just wanted to add something so I could go "I did that. I made that happen." and that's why I kept going on about it. :D
You won't here me about this subject again. ;)
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joulina11
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby joulina11 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:22 am

Thank you! :D
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Sleeper Service
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Sleeper Service » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:55 am

stylesrj wrote:Running out of fuel there can happen through no fault of your own. Since any event can occur (like... automated ships, followed by boarding parties then a Mantis raider who doesn't carry any fuel ever) in Deep Space and upgrades are expensive and stores are rare, even if you plan to jump to as many connecting beacons as possible (to scout out for a store) being out of fuel is easier than you think.

I'm not so sure about that. There might be a chance that you just not take managing fuel seriously enough yet. Surrender offers alone provide ample ways alone to gain fuel in my opinion. If I look at other peoples infinite runs it does not seem to be such a big, unavoidable issue as you describe it.

Artamba wrote: I find it pretty great that you understand why you implemented things one way or another, while resisting the usual 'I want MORE COOLNESS, and MORE POWER, AND MORE EASINESS!' suggestions who are made by people who don't take the time to think out why a mechanic they don't enjoy is that way. Like people asking to make it easy to get out of the shittiest situation you can get into (out of fuel facing a Tech Cruiser), for example. For the first time I am actually scared to the point of my pants flying off at the prospect of running out of fuel; I actually have to PLAN ahead or face actual(er) consequences!

Thanks! I'll keep doing my best to keep the mod harsh but beatable. I know that this is ultimately appreciated. In my opinion this is what creates big part of the appeal of the for many people, even if they might not even be aware of it themselves. Beating CE is ultimately meaningful, because it is brutal and requires learning and adapting to many new things.
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stylesrj
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:20 pm

Sleeper Service wrote:I'm not so sure about that. There might be a chance that you just not take managing fuel seriously enough yet. Surrender offers alone provide ample ways alone to gain fuel in my opinion. If I look at other peoples infinite runs it does not seem to be such a big, unavoidable issue as you describe it.


Oh right, I'm supposed to accept the enemy's surrender, instead of killing everyone onboard.

Yeah the events leading up to Death By Tech Cruiser happened a few months ago so it's pretty vague. But it did come as a nasty shock when I did run out of fuel... come to think of it, maybe I encountered a black hole 1-jump away from a Quest during my usual "Thread the Needle" strategy of just barely having enough time to hit the exit before the Fleet takes over.

By the way, those things are such BS! :lol:

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