Hardest beggining ship?

[actionhero112]

I disagree, there are definitely huge differences between my sector 8 ships depending which ship I choose as a starting one. I'm not saying that every ship guarantees unique run but the choice of a ship determines the tactic you have to use, for example there are boarding-centred ships like Mantis cruiser A and B, Crystal Cruiser B or Rock Cruiser B, Weapon-centred ships like federation cruiser, Kestrel, Rock Cruiser A, defence centred ships like Zoltan or Engi etc. Moreover, there are different boarding tactics, different weapon setups and so on. Also, customising your ship differently than it is intended is difficult on easy and borderline impossible on normal unless you have extreme luck.

To an extent you are correct, because ships have different augmentations and weapons to start with, and the shops are randomly generated, there is no possible way to have the same set up every game. (unless you cheat)

However, Redfoot is also correct. There is no way, for example, that I will forgo the benefits of having a teleporter, cloaking, shields, many weapons and drones on any ship no matter how you "classify" it, and neither should anyone else. I will generally end up with all possible systems, a fully upgraded shield, an upgraded engine and defense drones no matter the original set up. As well as a crack boarding team, and many weapons. These things will not change throughout the different ships.

And yes, usually if you employ proper gameplay strategies, you should have enough scrap by the end of the game to have those systems. (Using boarding to increase rewards and then reinvesting in your ship's defenses)

Also there is no such thing as a defensive ship. They all destroy ships/crew differently, but because this game does not reward stalling your opponent, there is no defensive oriented ship.

[DaemonX]

Untrue.

The Federation Cruisers can both be specced as defensive - since your Artillery does in fact reward stalling.
If you don't die, you eventually win because nothing can stop a beam weapon that penetrates all shields - beam weapons cannot be evaded.

Therefore my first Fed Cruiser win I had virutally no weapons except an ion bomb to slow the incoming damage, level 4 shields, 55% evasion, 2 x shield regenerator augments and a MkI AND MkII defense drone w/ Hull Repair

Took a while but the boss died before I did.

[actionhero112]

You're still using weapons to destroy an enemy ship -.-

How defensive is that?

Also the game does not reward you for only using the artillery beam. Sure you can structure your offense around doing damage solely with it, but the game only rewards you with a longer playtime, not benefits. The game rewards you for taking out your opponent quickly, because they then have less time to possibly damage you, and the game goes quicker.

[Boo]

You're still using weapons to destroy an enemy ship -.-

How defensive is that?

Also the game does not reward you for only using the artillery beam. Sure you can structure your offense around doing damage solely with it, but the game only rewards you with a longer playtime, not benefits. The game rewards you for taking out your opponent quickly, because they then have less time to possibly damage you, and the game goes quicker.

That's just silly. Of course you'll still have to do something to win. You can't win a basketball game by keeping the ball and never making a shot or a fight by just blocking and never throwing a punch yet you can still have a defensive style of play. As long as most of the effort is put into defense, it's considered defensive which in this case it is.

And the game rewards you for playing this style by making it impossible/unlikely for the opponent to do any damage to you while you can still do damage to your opponent, making it a near sure-fire win. If you can make it work, it's less risky than just trying to out-firepower the opponent. You also receive benefits from being able to invade other ships at your leisure as you don't have to worry about needing to take out the other ship before it takes out yours, resulting in increased scrap.

[Starbug]

You're still using weapons to destroy an enemy ship -.-

How defensive is that?

Also the game does not reward you for only using the artillery beam. Sure you can structure your offense around doing damage solely with it, but the game only rewards you with a longer playtime, not benefits. The game rewards you for taking out your opponent quickly, because they then have less time to possibly damage you, and the game goes quicker.

A Defensive ship ≠ Pacifism run -_-
There is a specific achievement for doing that

(And, incidentally, the game does reward you for only using the artillery beam, 2 ship based achievements in the osprey, but I think you were talking in general terms. Sorry, I'm just being pedantic now)

Anything that improves your ship's survivability is defensive. Sheilds, engines, cloak, defensive drones, system repair drones, and even anti-boarding drones are all Defensive because you cannot use them to attack other ships - they only improve your own survivability, and do not affect anyone else's.

Anything offensive is any kind of weapons, anti-ship and boarding drones, and augments which improve weapons, because they help you kill the enemy. Ion weapons and crew probably count as both.

Granted, you can also apply "The best defence is a good offence" strategy, since the enemy can't hurt you much if you kill them quickly, which I think is what you are getting at, but its not the ONLY defence.

Good shields, engines and a decent defence drone means you will take pretty much no damage, so the game no longer 'only rewards you for killing them quickly'. You can take your time now.

ANYWAY back on topic. I found the Engi B, the Vortex, the hardest beginning ship. You start with one crew and a poor excuse for a replacement crew (the drones, though they do allow you to do certain blue options). And the weapons need to be micromanaged to get through 1 shield (and only 1!)

Remarkably, my first win on normal was with this ship o_0, but that was only because I was ludicrously lucky, got lots of crew, and managed to get the ion weapon that the Engi A has, to replace my other ion -_-, and a defence drone, anti ship drone and a burst laser/bomb I think.
I basically only won with that ship because it became the Engi A. So, that's saying something...

[Szyszkojad]

To an extent you are correct, because ships have different augmentations and weapons to start with, and the shops are randomly generated, there is no possible way to have the same set up every game. (unless you cheat)

However, Redfoot is also correct. There is no way, for example, that I will forgo the benefits of having a teleporter, cloaking, shields, many weapons and drones on any ship no matter how you "classify" it, and neither should anyone else. I will generally end up with all possible systems, a fully upgraded shield, an upgraded engine and defense drones no matter the original set up. As well as a crack boarding team, and many weapons. These things will not change throughout the different ships.

And yes, usually if you employ proper gameplay strategies, you should have enough scrap by the end of the game to have those systems. (Using boarding to increase rewards and then reinvesting in your ship's defenses)

The game definitely encourages you to buy all the possible systems by sector 8, its how you use them that makes all the difference - On boarding ships I usually have 4 fully experienced boarders and very specific boarding tactic and with no problem I can take over a ship without doing much hull damage. With an offensive ship on the other hand I have 2-3 boarders that play the role of a "cleaning crew" killing the already weak enemies on a heavily damaged ship. If I use stealth ship I usually buy stealth weapons as soon as possible and use all three bars of cloak as a way of doing damage, while on other ships I keep only one bar of stealth to avoid particularly difficult volleys. The number of drone and weapon slots also makes a difference, with the Engi ship I often have two drones active at any time and tend to use more of advanced drones using more than two bars of power, while on Rock cruiser I just buy a defensive drone I to shoot down the rockets.

What I was saying is that yes, you technically could use, for example, Kestrel as a boarding ship from, say, sector 3 but that would require you to be extremely lucky and come across 4 mantises/rocks in shops/events and also come across some good support weapons on the way. It's possible but I wouldn't count on that.

Also there is no such thing as a defensive ship. They all destroy ships/crew differently, but because this game does not reward stalling your opponent, there is no defensive oriented ship.

I disagree, you can focus on firepower and destroy an enemy ship quickly enough so it doesn't do damage to you but you can instead have maxed shields, maxed engine and two defence drones protecting you from damage while you slowly and methodically destroy the enemy. Also, there is a benefit from stalling the enemy - If you use the Engi ship and if you are patient you can slowly take down the shields using the ion weapon and then finish it using pretty much anything. On a Federation cruiser if you stall the enemy long enough the artillery will eventually destroy him even if you are unable to punch through the shields.

What I would complain about is the final boss fight, every time I just employ the "leave one crew member alive" tactic simply because of how efficient it is even if I use different methods to accomplish this. The game would definitely benefit from different layouts of final ship so that the fight is more than just a formality.

[jamotide]

Stealth B is definitely the hardest. I haven't managed to get past sector 4 yet. With all the other ships I can win nearly all games.

Engi B is not the hardest, because you can just sell all the crap it starts with and have an even better start than most ships. Kind of sploity and besides the point of the Layout, I know, but you can't sell the cloak of Stealth B.

[Drasha]

Stealth B is definitely the hardest. I haven't managed to get past sector 4 yet. With all the other ships I can win nearly all games.

Engi B is not the hardest, because you can just sell all the crap it starts with and have an even better start than most ships. Kind of sploity and besides the point of the Layout, I know, but you can't sell the cloak of Stealth B.

Stealth b starts with pretty much the best weapon in the game all you need is a bit of luck in the first sector with enemy spawns and you spend the rest of the game one shooting enemy ships.

[jamotide]

Well, nope.

[TheKillerNacho]

Stealth ship B and Crystal ship B are both rough starters. Stealth B is hosed if anything hits its weapon control before the glaive beam charges up(25s). Crystal ship B has no weapons at all to start with(but is the games best boarding ship), and is hosed by automated enemies before it can get a weapon(well, it can run away, but the scouts that let the fleet know where you are suck).

I agree with this. While I enjoy playing both ships, they are by far the hardest to start with early-game (which is pretty much the only time in which your starting ship matters). The problem is both ships have huge weaknesses to the point that you need luck in the first couple sectors in order to have a chance to succeed.