Page 2 of 6

Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:41 am
by jamotide
Gamebiz sounds interesting, gonna try it.

Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:44 pm
by UltraMantis
Titans of Steel

It's pretty hard, and you can get really unlucky and lose loads of money very easily. Also, when your guys n gals die, they stay dead. Dead squad leaders are especially brutal. Engines are very eager to explode and when they do they take out the titan, the pilot, and with a bit of (bad) luck, neighbouring titans get hit with shrapnel and heat, possibly exploding as well. Hellish experience. Fun though!

What is ToS? Top-down strategy game where squads of Titan-ATs (mecha) smash each other up using a variety of weapons such as missiles, rockets, cannons, lazars (pew pew), power axes, an odd chainsaw plus some exotic weapons that cause secondary effects (Black Ray will cause instability, Meson cannons cause internal damage).

Despite the violence, the focus is on strategy. The pace is quite slow, but when titans engage in melee it gets hectic. Positioning titans, covering teammates, and timing weapons is more important than having the biggest guns and most armor. Weapons produce heat and alpha strikes are normally avoided in favor of more sensibly spread out firing. Heat dissipation plays quite an important role as high heat reduces ToHit chances and potentially sets off ammo explosions. Ganging up on a single threat is common and AI does a good job of it. Overall the AI is good and will NOT forgive a mistake at all. There are a lot of nuances and tricks that need to be mastered.

Outside battles, there's squad management, which includes hiring/firing, buying/selling/assigning titans and spending earned XP to improve jock skills. A titan is only as good as the jock piloting it, and for squads it's better to customise titans to suit a jock's skills than to rely on factory models.

Speaking of the factory, there are 5 classes of titans, several chassis types for each, numerous weapons, armor types, electronics, jump jets and other junk with which to play. Hours can be spent fine tuning the perfect bot.

The game will surely be too slow for some, too complicated for others but if FTL isn't complex enough or if you dig giant robots give it a whirl.

Be warned that it is an EVIL game. Mistakes are exploited by AI with glee, and when your squad goes out to battle there's NO guarantee any of them are coming back. You will lose jocks, be sure of it! Start with simple melee titans without fancy gear or requirements and gang up on enemies to hack them to death. Make sure your crew is good in a few skills rather than crap in many. Train survival and bail the hell out before your head or engine are crumbled.


Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:04 pm
by jamotide
Titans looks interesting as well. I played gamebiz now and its fun. Do you know if there are any mods or patches that fix the gazillion spelling errors, or maybe real names for the games?

Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:54 am
by UltraMantis
GameBiz 3 is out. Not free, but it has real game names and is a big improvement in design. It's still a mess, as Nino realy goes all out to prove that programmers should not be allowed to design games.

Umm, i didn't really like GB3. The hardest difficulty is a painfull, boring experience because your people learn slowly, and every few years their skills decrease due to new tech coming out. The gamplay changed a bit. You no longer design engines, so you cant earn scraps by licensing them. Insetad you have to focus on increasing your knowledge base about a certain platform, then you can produce better games. It's very unintuitve though. You have no clue how good the games will actually be untill you invest loads of time into learning, and by that time the platform can go bust as well.

The worst thing is that multiplatform releases take too long to create, with each additional platform taking the whole production time instead of only the time it would take to actually port the main game. This is for balancing reasons though, as you can rake enourmous cash with good games on several popular platforms. If you could sell a 10/10 game on the Amiga/AtariST/SNES/DOS in their heyday, you'd be very rich.

The biggest improvement is the addition of publishing. You have to invest a lot, but it removes having to pay exorbitant licencing fees, gives you 100% of sales, and makes it possible to publish other's games ofr 20-30% of sales. Very nice.

Other things i liked is the ability to play until 2030 and sorting your staff into teams. Sadly teams would have been more effective with GB2 style gameplay, where i allways had dedicated engine coders, game coders and HW staff. GB3 has different skill requirements so other than dedicated HW staff, teams arent so usefull.

Both games REALLY lack a tutorial though. And some very improtant (gameending) situations are never explained. For ex. if you are publishing someone else's crap when your game is completed, you cannot publish it yourself. You MUST pay another publisher to do it, even if you intend to sit on the game for a while and release it when demand is higher (and your dept. is free). Veyr unrealistic. You also can't remove (or even fire) the last person in a team, which can realy be stupid sometimes.

But this thread is about evil games... that for some reason :roll:

Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:51 pm
by jamotide
Thanks for the breakdown, I didnt notice GB3 somehow. But I am liking GB2 quite alot. Its the first business sim I can remember now that doesnt go into easy mode autimatically once you "make it". From what I can tell anyway, I only played through one full game.
The only thing that annoys me is to negotiate engine sales 30 times a year, so if thats not possible in GB3 anymore, I see it as a big plus!
I was ready to donate for GB2 so I might as well buy GB3 instead.

Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:55 am
by UltraMantis
I used those engine sales to fund my education efforts :? As i typically studied the first couple of years. Rather than make crap games for crap money. It's also fast money that keeps the bank away, but eventually i do stop. You'll miss it in GB3, there's no quick buck and IIRC the game nails you with the great video game crash fairly early on (if you start in the 80s) and it's a pain in the ass to sell videogames when the US market goes down the drain.

Glad you like it. Agree that it doesn't get boring or easy although it's easier to breathe when you manage to rid yourself of the shackles of poverty. And as long as the list of design complaints is, there's still no other game that can match it for depth and substance. Oh, and there's a demo of GB3 on the site for anyone else interested.

Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:19 am
by jamotide
Yeah study is important! Only the great guys make good games, I see that now. In my first round I produced mostly crappy action games. Well I cant stop playing the game, thank you for bringing it to our attention, have also bought GB3 now, but havent tried that yet.
I just noticed the game seems to have a 2 billion $ limit, you can go over it, but it resets to 2 billion every month or so! Pretty strange, since you can get billions pretty quickly with platform sales! My second platform (called "Wixbox" :D) sold 3 milllion units around 1000 bucks each. Somewhat unsatisfying when you can't amass more cash at that point.

Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:53 am
by xXSoulSlayerXx
Try out Beat Hazard Ultra! This game runs itself on the music you play, increasing your speed, power and other skills when the music gets louder while slowing you down to a crawl when hitting a lul of a song... Very unforgiving if you fail to defeat the boss and you hit the softer parts of your current song. :)

Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:43 am
by PirateCat
XCOM: Terror from the Deep. There was a bug in the first one that made the difficulty default to easy, so everyone complained to Microprose that the game was too easy. So they responded by making the easiest difficulty harder than the hardest of the first one was supposed to be. So even the easy setting is mind-meltingly hard. All sorts of fun though. Of course, it was only after the game was released that the difficulty bug was discovered. If you want to try it, I strongly suggest xcomutil, rearranging equipment for 16-24 soldiers every battle gets old fast.

Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:07 am
by UltraMantis

Uplink is a hacking simulator with good depth (but not realism), great atmoshpere and heart-pounding action. Please take a moment to look at the screenshots below. Hard to imagine any of them as heart-pounding, but avoiding active and passive traces in addition to the pressures of your task will have you working overtime. The consequences of being traced are pretty much fatal.

The core of the game revolves around using hacking tools to perform missions in exchange for money. The money earned can be spent upgrading your hacking machine and various hacking tools that make missions easier and higher-prestige missions possible. Prestige is earned by succesfully doing jobs, and lost by being clumsy and failing.

This is a game listed in a thread about difficult and evil games, remember? Failure more often than not, leads to your chacacter being compromised and unable to work. Basically, it's game over when you get caught. You will get caught. Often. If you're prone to ragequitting, consult a physician before playing, lest you get an aneurysm :) Okay? There's a way to "acquire" certain "insurance" but it costs a small fortune and wont help you complete missions or gain prestige so it's of very limited use in the beginning.

Typical jobs require you to hack into a server and then either disable security, steal a password, delete files, copy files (steal them), but some are more devious or possibly entertaining. Such as altering someone's Social Securuty details or criminal record. YOU are in the game as well, so you could hack stuff about yourself as well. :) You also have a bank account. And there are a few banks around. They can be hacked. You are a hacker... while you're connecting the dots, please realise that it is the single most difficult stunt to pull off and almost guarantees your game will be over.

There's more to the game than just consulting the bulletin board for jobs and such. Many of the targets are servers belonging to various corporations, but there are also goverment servers. Any server can be attacked for pleasure or treasure but consider the consequences and potential rewards before you engage any target. There are no random rewards for hacking outside missions, but you could create your own rewards. Corporations are listed on the stock exchange and if you can figure out how to "influence" the prices, the game will let you. You are not forced into a linear path. If you belive your own bank accounts are in danger of being snooped or hacked or wish to spread your money around, simply move your money wherever you wish. Again, the game will not stop you. The more you hack, the more you will appretiate your own security :)

There is an overall story, but you can choose to ignore it and play your own game. While you are a freelancer, you depend on a special corporation to house your machine, secure it, and handle your transactions and rating. Your rating isnt just about skill, but also your "karma". Performing destructive missions may be more lucrative but it may attract the wrong kind of attention to you. Or the right kind, as again, you are free to play any way you wish.

The graphics are ok. Nothing flashy, but nothing ugly either. The music is beautifull. The story and setting, and the overall tone make Uplink a very personal and engrossing experience. While it's not a realistic hacking sim, realistic hacking is pretty boring and would not make for a good game.

Try the demo. Uplink has that certain magic about it.

Uplink - demo - (PC,Linux,Mac)
Uplink - - (PC,Mac)