Other games with harsh difficulty

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jamotide
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Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Postby jamotide » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:36 am

Does look like an interesting game, I noticed it before on gog. Thank you for providing us with your complicated games review here!
I wanted to let you know that I did buy Gamebiz 3 and I am glad I did, I like it much better than 2, it is also much harder. But I finally managed to win on extreme difficulty. I wrote a lengthy report on the official forums, but it seems to be somewhat deserted. But maybe you would like to read it:
http://z11.invisionfree.com/VelociGames ... wtopic=763
UltraMantis
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Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Postby UltraMantis » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:52 am

Allways a pleasure to rant about games :D

I've read the post, thank you for the link. The velocigames and osirisgames forums never really gained momentum, so they feel kinda underground. Usually the people who do post are a nice bunch. Kinda crazy, but mostly nice.

About the first console, from what i remember from GB2, it was important to make it as high quality as possible but spend an awfull lot of time reducing costs. Even then you have to sell at a loss to get people interested in it. And sign a LOT of games from EA and other publishers to ensure at least 4-5 good ones come out. If it's a really high tech console it should stay strong for years and you can earn back all your losses and then some. But those initial losses are allways going to be huge.

Also, don't count on Amiga being a cash cow in every game. The performances are randomised somewhat. Usually Atari 2600/DOS/PSX are dependable platforms but not allways.

Dammit, now you've made me wanna play it :mrgreen:
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jamotide
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Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Postby jamotide » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:17 am

Ok, so the Amiga is probably a huge success in all my playthroughs because of the great games I develop for it, Gamebiz 4 for example. :mrgreen:

You are right about the consoles, the first one wasnt a failure profit wise, it kept me afloat while at 40 million debt and ended up at about 200m profit. The problem was just that I could not sell it cheap enough (because my company was near bankruptcy) to sell enough units for it to be a profitable games platform. So my 10/10 games barely broke even.
UltraMantis
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Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Postby UltraMantis » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:42 am

DISCLAIMER!!!
The following is a description of an unfinished game. It is playable, but incomplete. Development has been ongoing for years and will likely continue for years to come. It isn't a demo however. The campaign can be played all the way up to the stage where no new development has been added. After that, no new technology or story elements will appear but the game will still continue untill you choose to end it. At the time of writing, the last "story mode" mission is the assault on an Alien base on Earth. That's still quite a lot of gameplay, but the origin of the invasion, and any possible retaliation will have to wait for new versions to come out. The game is well-polished though, and recommended despite not featuring a completed campaign mode.


UFO - Alien Invasion

This one barely qualifies as a harsh game overall as it's pretty hard to loose even on the hardest difficulty, but it makes the cut (in my mind) because a) your interceptors are huge underdogs and b) saving mid-mission is disabled (though restarting a bugged map is possible). As the official word puts it: "Saving after each kill and reloading after each death removes the fear. And you should be affraid."

And it works. You get attached to your squad as they rise from hapless rookies to decent soldiers, and you do fear loosing any of them when you assault a landed large UFO. You know damn well the enemy is laying an ambush for you and will NOT come out. Fortunately this works both ways, as killing or wounding a large number of enemies during a single turn causes a huge loss of morale and weakens survivors.

The AI in the game is unfortunatley not challenging enough but i would say it's still pretty good. AI knows how to camp and snipe from affar and is programmed to prefer holding a spot with a good line of fire to just roaming around. Their effectiveness still mostly depends on the weapons they use, so the earlier part of the game is a little easier as early alien weaponry has weak range and worse accuracy. Massive power though. Later weapons have all the range and power to kill or at least cripple even lightly armored soldiers in one shot, so tactics will have to change.

Speaking of tactics, it's important to have a mixed squad. A soldier's skills improve by using a weapon (more precisely a firing mode, as some weapons can be used in more than one way) and while you wont get much use out of your assault type guys in the beginning, you should still bring them along to improve their abilities. Early game revolves around close combat specialists moving cover to cover while supported by snipers from affar. Of course this is just a rough guide. Every map is a little bit different and requires a slightly different approach, but generally it's better to keep two small groups together to help gang up on aliens. Snipers, if they can get a line of sight, could use reserved shots (opportunity fire) to pick off aliens from distance where they will be relatively safe.

Strategic mode features base building and management. It's probably a safe bet that your initial attempts will result in building bases in the wrong places and with bad layouts, but thats the only way to learn. The manual helps but it doesnt teach you everything. Locations of the bases are pretty straightforward as you want to cover your clients (hey, they pay you to protect the Earth) but deciding which purpose a base will serve is not so simple. While any base can serve multiple purposes, you should dedicate at least one base solely to engineering simply because it takes up so much space. The Aliens will target your bases without mercy (i've had my main engineering complex flattened 4 times), so be prepared to defend them otherwise you will waste a lot of money. Each base has a limited radar range and can have up to 3 support buildings that include radar outposts, SAM sites, or UFO storage depots. Downed UFO can be stored and eventually dissasembled but a lot of research must be done first.

Research, along with the tactical battles, is one of the strong points of the game. Not only is the tree large and varied, but a lot of effort has been made to integrate it with the story and present it with depth. It features full emails sent by your staff with detailed backstory and even some personal opinions and bickering involved. While not 100% complete, research appears story driven, rather than having the feel of picking from a catalogue.

Sadly not all is good. Eventually the player will get a good grasp of game mechanics and then the excitement peters out and routine sets in. The enemy still wont give an inch without a brutal fight, but tactical combat loses appeal and since it overpowers global strategy by something like 80-20% the game can drag once you're only interested in completing research projects.

Another downside may be the graphics. In a strategy game, visuals take a back seat anyway but UFO AI is being slowly developed and uses an old engine. Recent versions have improved visuals though and active development promises to hold back decay.

While playing an unfinished game has it's drawbacks, the upside is that if you get bored with the game and stop playing for awhile, there's a pretty good chance several new versions will have come out by the time you get an itch to play it again.

Personally, i consider UFO Aftershock to be the finest succesor to the legacy UFO Enemy Unknown left, but UFO Alien Invasion is second best and more closely related due to the way base management and turn based battles work.

Give it a try, it's free and available on PC, Mac and Linux.
http://ufoai.org/wiki/index.php/Download

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More Dakka
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Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Postby More Dakka » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:32 am

UltraMantis wrote:King of Dragon Pass <3

High learning curve and 100% guarantee of losing. The game doesnt cheat you or give AI superpowers, it just decides you've played enough and need to lose now. Kinda like FTL sometimes. I gotta find that game again :lol:


The original KODP is actually legally available as A-Sharp has allowed GOG (formerly "Good Old Games") to sell it -- $5.99, download, no DRM.

Works on Windows 7 (tested this personally), and apparently Vista and XP as well.

A-Sharp has also made a newer version for iOS devices, but I haven't bought that one yet (and don't have an iPad, which would probably be a /much/ better experience than playing it on an iPhone).
More Dakka
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Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Postby More Dakka » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:47 am

I'd also suggest that the old Bullfrog game "Syndicate Wars" got pretty difficult towards the end. While early missions ease you in.. later on, you're frantically dodging miniaturized nuclear warheads or rods literally *dropped from orbit*, or trying to infiltrate enemy sectors, capture a guarded VIP, and bring him in /alive/ while escaping enemies in flying cars...
UltraMantis
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Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Postby UltraMantis » Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:58 am

Actually i was refering to a CD when i said "find" the game :) I made an image of it and i'm sure i kept it on a HDD but it's not with my other game images. I don't know which is worse, storing and sorting out physical copies or disk images. Even if i'm not going to play those games i still want to know i have them somewhere...

I think i'll buy the GOG version as it will be kept up to date and available for download whenever i want it :D I picked up the original Syndicate just last weekend for $2.39 - a bargain's bargain. Too bad GOG doesn't offer Amiga versions, it had better sound by a few miles.

And you mentioned Syndicate Wars. I gave up on that game when the game difficulty skyrocketed and it became real time hysteria. I like SW, but i can't enjoy playing that. There was one mission where i had to keep one pathetic civilian alive as he walked a few blocks while enemy agents were coming in like a plague of miniguns. That was too much for me.
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CV666
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Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Postby CV666 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:12 am

TEKKEN TAG TOURNAMENT 2

I'm a big fighting game fan and I've been playing Tekken since the second game, but I recently picked up Tekken Tag 2 and jesus christ... I always thought I was sort of a badass at Tekken, ruthlessly kicking my little bro's ass in Tekken 3 as a kid, but I jump online and just get crushed nonstop. It's a beautiful game to both watch and play, but the technical depth involved is staggering. The game has been around for what, 20 years? All of that complexity creep that has accumulated with each installment is truly mind blowing for a console game. And in Tekken, when you lose a match, you usually just get completely fucking destroyed and it's an absolutely soul crushing experience. As fun as it is, I have to admit I was getting a bit depressed after losing so many matches. I'm slowly getting there, but it's going to be a long road... :cry:

Consider what's involved in learning to play this game:

1. each character has 100-150 moves (some have even more)
2. not only learning one character's set of moves, but learning TWO characters sets and then coming up with effective tag combos
3. learning the ins and outs of the tag system, bound system, crush system, wall combos, floor/wall breaks, etc.....
4. okay, you mastered two characters? Nice try... now get a grip on all 50+ characters' moves so you know how to effectively block, parry and punish them
5. familiar with the thousands of moves in the game? Not so fast, douchebag... now memorize the frame data associated with each move on block, whiff and impact!
6. necessary mastery of advanced movement techniques that require intense muscle memory... people have equated learning this game to learning a musical instrument

Of course, learning all of this isn't necessary to have fun with the game, but if you want to be even decent online, you better learn 2 or 3 of those bullet points. I honestly have no fucking idea how someone who is new to the game can pick it up and master it...
Darkelve
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Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Postby Darkelve » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:28 am

If you are into RPG's (with graphics similar to the 1st Zelda), I recommend Laxius Power I, II and III.

Sometimes it's a bit childish, but it's great fun... and the battles at time are really tough, to the point where you won't win if you don't have the proper equipment&leveling up&strategy.

If you like adventures:
- Gabriel Knight III (Serpent Rouge puzzle, probably best designed game puzzle I ever saw)
- Gabriel Knight I
- Day Of The Tentacle
- This freeware adventure series: 5 Days A Stranger, 6 Days an Assassin, 7 Days A Skeptic, ...

RPG's
- Dark Souls (never played it myself, but it's supposed to be difficult)

Platformers:
- Karoshi I and II (though I never played myself)
- Super Meat Boy
- Mirror's Edge

Puzzle Game:
Braid (Puzzle/Platformer)
Nimbostratus
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Re: Other games with harsh difficulty

Postby Nimbostratus » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:03 am

Anyone remember Master of Orion? It's quite challenging, especially the Impossible difficulty which, while not quite impossible, will keep even the most seasoned players on their toes.

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