Don't understand why some people don't like FTL's gameplay

General discussion about the game.
zabbo2
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:12 pm

Don't understand why some people don't like FTL's gameplay

Postby zabbo2 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:15 am

I'm really surprised by how many people are complaining that FTL is too hard, too random, and there is no save/load mechanic. These are three major selling points for me. Let me briefly address them:

1) Too hard Sure the game is too hard at first. After you get better at, you'll find it easy. I find the game pretty easy to win myself, after playing it for many hours. Think: if this game was far easier you would have stopped playing a long time ago and wouldn't have even bothered to sign up to this forum to complain about it.

2) Too Random Randomness is the thing that keeps this game interesting. Not only that, but I defeated the boss with many different combinations of ships and equipment, so I completely reject the notion 'that you have to get lucky to find the right stuff to be able to beat it. If every level was the same, again, the game would be completely uninteresting and replayability would be slight.

3) No Save/ Load Mechanic I think this is getting so many complaints mainly because this is just such a foreign notion to many younger gamers (or inexperienced mainstream gamers), and they can't wrap their head around it. In the majority of games released today you get carrot after carrot until the game is complete and then you don't play it again, with little consequence with your character's death and no chance of messing your game up permanently. FTL has a different style: you try to win, you lose, you get better over time, and try again from the start instead of just reloading from the last step to continue on to reach 'the end' of the game. If a save /load mechanic was tacked on to the game as it, the whole gameplay would be wrecked. You'd play it for 2 hours and then you would consider it done and never want to play it again.

Perhaps it's only a small majority of people who think these things. But really, reading some people's suggestions, if the game was actually like how they think it would be better, perhaps they would like it more (but I doubt it), but to me, it would be a game that would suck sweaty balls IMHO. I like the game's mechanics. If the mechanics are new to you, I just suggest you give them a chance. The games not about winning it, it's about getting good enough to beat it.

But also: please don't play 20-30-35 hours of the game and then come to the forum and complain how dumb the game's mechanics are. Give me a break. You wouldn't be playing so much of it if you didn't find it fun.
Jalida
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:08 am

Re: Don't understand why some people don't like FTL's gamepl

Postby Jalida » Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:36 am

zabbo2 wrote:I'm really surprised by how many people are complaining that FTL is too hard, too random, and there is no save/load mechanic. These are three major selling points for me. Let me briefly address them:



Let me give you the simple answer... Not everybody plays games the same, nor does everybody get the same sense of achievement out of playing games.
klamka.357
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:49 pm

Re: Don't understand why some people don't like FTL's gamepl

Postby klamka.357 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:19 am

Jalida wrote:Let me give you the simple answer... Not everybody plays games the same, nor does everybody get the same sense of achievement out of playing games.


Different games have different gameplay. Complaining that FTL has no load/save or it's random is like complaining that The Sims has no Deathmatch mode.
Fawkes
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:04 pm

Re: Don't understand why some people don't like FTL's gamepl

Postby Fawkes » Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:15 am

But also: please don't play 20-30-35 hours of the game and then come to the forum and complain how dumb the game's mechanics are. Give me a break. You wouldn't be playing so much of it if you didn't find it fun.


Thinking the mechanics are dumb and finding it fun are not mutually exclusive. I like this game and have played 28 hours of it, and I also think it has a lot of flaws.
Soloun
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Don't understand why some people don't like FTL's gamepl

Postby Soloun » Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:45 am

I like the game but find the short duration disappointing, I think the developers are sitting on a gold mine if only this game was open ended and you could upgrade your ship and crew over a longer period. I can live without a normal save and death being permanent and understand why they did it for how the game is atm. However I think the short duration really hurts what would otherwise be an amazing game, as it stands it good fun, for a short while, but I've only played since I bought it last Friday, I'm no expert just IMO.
Zoridium JackL
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:39 am

Re: Don't understand why some people don't like FTL's gamepl

Postby Zoridium JackL » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:46 am

Soloun wrote:I like the game but find the short duration disappointing, I think the developers are sitting on a gold mine if only this game was open ended and you could upgrade your ship and crew over a longer period. I can live without a normal save and death being permanent and understand why they did it for how the game is atm. However I think the short duration really hurts what would otherwise be an amazing game, as it stands it good fun, for a short while, but I've only played since I bought it last Friday, I'm no expert just IMO.


dear god yes, if I had the ability to just play endlessly forever progressing to the right of the universe, perhaps on some star trek wannabe mission, I would die happy, I want the ability to have my ship fly forever (or at least until it explodes), maybe even the ability to make it bigger? to expand it and add rooms, to add beys, maybe even a sub hanger and some fighters?

as for the OP, on the topic of save/load mechanics, if the game were indeed endless and not so short, I would love to be able to have multiple saves going at once, still perma death and unable to go back in time to change things, but the ability to have multiple ships going that I could play depending on what i feel like, not currently a problem considering the length of the game but I would love to see an endless version.
curithwin
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Don't understand why some people don't like FTL's gamepl

Postby curithwin » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:48 am

Firstly to answer your questions from my point of view. I do understand that all things are relative to your own point of view - some will love, some will not.

1, Too Hard - Good. Games tend to be too easy now and nothing worth well is easy to do. Try doing an oil painting and you'll find that out or build your own car from scrap pieces.

2, To Random - Again good! If you want re-playability you need things to change. Even if the encounters are the same the order they come in can change the play through to seem like a new story is developing. Just look at all films now, they have all been done before, but just changing the order things come in make them new and different.

3, No Save/ Load Mechanic - Yes there is, but not the extant of; "Damn died... lets load up and forget that happened!" This game saves on quit, so it is there. If you have permadeath like in many roguelikes it forces you to learn and to learn you need to expand your grey matter. To extend your grey matter you need to fail. Failure is the best teaching method that almost 80% of things learnt are taught. As a child you would never learn to walk around corners if you did not run into the door jam once or twice.

I do find it slightly silly people have trolled these forums and put down this wonderful gem of a game. But as usual people who are really happy with this game are always less vocal then people with a grudge. The small minority is ruining it for the rest of us again. ;)

Soloun wrote:I like the game but find the short duration disappointing, I think the developers are sitting on a gold mine if only this game was open ended and you could upgrade your ship and crew over a longer period. I can live without a normal save and death being permanent and understand why they did it for how the game is atm. However I think the short duration really hurts what would otherwise be an amazing game, as it stands it good fun, for a short while, but I've only played since I bought it last Friday, I'm no expert just IMO.


They may be planning something, yesterday Justin did say they are looking at the reception of the game as a whole and then after a little rest (they'll need it), they will see what to do in the future. New game or extra content. So far it is all in the ether.

I love this game and it has ignited my create juices to get me working on my own web comic again after a LONG rest. So I thank Justin and Matthew so very much and if I could go back to the kickstarter I would have given $500.
Ergil
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:25 am

Re: Don't understand why some people don't like FTL's gamepl

Postby Ergil » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:52 am

FTL is awesome. I've been playing it pretty much nonstop for the last two days. I agree that "hard", "random" and "no save/load" are actually good for the game. Sometimes, though, the combination of hard and random turns out to be plain unwinnable (e.g. 4 mantis showing up in your ship in sector 3), and when that happens the lack of save/load is extremely annoying. I think an autosave upon entering a new sector would improve the game.
Vigilant
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Don't understand why some people don't like FTL's gamepl

Postby Vigilant » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:36 am

: Don't understand why some people don't like FTL's gamep


What a question! It´s diversity. This simple thing. What a boring world this would be, if everyone thinking the same way. And why "complaining" about this great source of variety, creativity and innovation? ;)

Plurality of opinions is not the problem. It´s great. The problem are people who are unable to respect and accept this simple principle of freedom.

And yes, an auto sace function or even the freedom to save and load at some point will be great. Why not adjusting this by difficulty? Easy then means easy. On normal or on for example on hardcore these options could be switched off.
2quidy
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:05 am

Re: Don't understand why some people don't like FTL's gamepl

Postby 2quidy » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:41 am

zabbo2 wrote:1) Too hard

2) Too Random

3) No Save/ Load Mechanic

Perhaps it's only a small majority of people who think these things. -snip-The games not about winning it, it's about getting good enough to beat it. But also: please don't play 20-30-35 hours of the game and then come to the forum and complain how dumb the game's mechanics are. Give me a break. You wouldn't be playing so much of it if you didn't find it fun.


So many great points OP!!! :D

1. Hard: The way the game works, after the tutorial you know how the controls work and have a basic idea of the ship. The visuals are so reduced that the "idea of the ship" is very visible, like a blueprint" so you KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO DO more or less very intuitively. What is great, is the system is so flexible that you try something out and it makes you extend your thinking. Even if you lose, it has achieved the objective of exapanding your understanding and tinkering with the ship system. It's awesome from a learning point of view. Each run I've done I've fallen down different paths and made decisions to max success but also to max my learning eg I feel weak against the mantis who invade so I am trying to fight pirates and work out their biggest threat and what rewards I can get. It's wonderful!

2. Random: The second thing is that each run a new mini-story pops and surprises with what reaction I need to take and different outcome even (damn the guy was too weak and died so no new crew member like last time!!). It's MORE ENGROSSING adding the random. I also fly the flag for the devs that you can die at any turn out of bad luck: The universe is large and full of dangers, this makes the map so much more alive so again you play your chances the ones you can control and max those to offset the ones you can't control (perhaps some of this you get a knack for later?). Think it helps your expectation if you have played some roguelike previous.

3. The save thing cheapens the experience, because it allows you to brute force forwards so good it is not there imo. The save+quit is essential as I often don't have time to complete a run or like to pause and think a lot!! I'm a big fan of choices -> consequences and a save feature would really hit that by reverting your decisions. The thought what could have been is nice for a game. the save feature would tempt people to brute force how the systems work by save+iterate forwards. I think therefore the way you are forced to learn by each unique experience is therefore worth preserving without the save feature. That's my support for excluding it and therefore each DECISION you make each run sustains the feeling of being very highly LOADED!

Those are my rough thoughts so far: EVERY RUN I've had so far has been wildly different and new scenarios occur and more learning takes place because there are impactful choices which cannot be stopped but can be turned in different ways.

Most of the comments I've seen around the web: Loads of people really love FTL. So my thoughts are really a big thank you to the devs. One of the best (video) games I've experienced.

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