Not hard, just random.

General discussion about the game.
Joush
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:19 am

Not hard, just random.

Postby Joush » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:31 am

I'd forgotten what roguelikes are like. I suppose that's half the problem right there.

You see, they aren't hard. Not really, you have an early period of being fragile, but difficulty ramps up smoothly. The problem is that unlike other games there is no check to see if resources are disturbed evenly.

I'd forgotten how much I hate how roguelikes ignore basic ideas of game theory. If you make the "right" choice in every node and lose, the game is deeply flawed to me.

Individual battles in FTL aren't hard. Most are very easy, in fact. It's only the blind luck of how repair resources are distributed that determines when a run ends. It's fun. I like the ideas, but the basic form of the game seems deeply flawed. Questions like "how do you regain health" don't have a satisfactory answer, instead having a stopgap of giving the player ship a huge amount of health but making the ability to recover it dependent totally on chance.
RynCage
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:25 am

Re: Not hard, just random.

Postby RynCage » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:38 am

It's rougelikey enough to not get on my nerves and be fun all the while. Hoping my choices dont get my crew slaughtered, wishing the next enemy doesnt have 3 missle systems, praying their shots dont knock out my weapons when they're just about charged.
For the most part, even if you're extremely unlucky you can manage to make any given situation work and progress through the sectors.

But then i get to the boss.. :roll:
Joush
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:19 am

Re: Not hard, just random.

Postby Joush » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:44 am

That's the thing, you can beat your way though most situations because while random, the resources are generous enough to sustain you..

Until the boss, where even with the "right" choices made in every node up until then you can end up in an unwinable situation, mostly because the game simply doesn't handle recovering health very well.
Gorlom
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:06 am

Re: Not hard, just random.

Postby Gorlom » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:46 am

Joush wrote:I'd forgotten how much I hate how roguelikes ignore basic ideas of game theory. If you make the "right" choice in every node and lose, the game is deeply flawed to me.

I don't get this complaint. It's not possible to lose if you make the right choice all the time. Have you played it enough to know what is the right choice in very situation? Every strategy? Every trick?
I've been playing through the whole beta and I'm still making mistakes... but I'm consistently reaching the last sector and feel fairly certain I can beat the boss. The times I don't I recognize the mistakes I did.
Joush
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:19 am

Re: Not hard, just random.

Postby Joush » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:51 am

Gorlom wrote:
Joush wrote:I'd forgotten how much I hate how roguelikes ignore basic ideas of game theory. If you make the "right" choice in every node and lose, the game is deeply flawed to me.

I don't get this complaint. It's not possible to lose if you make the right choice all the time. Have you played it enough to know what is the right choice in very situation? Every strategy? Every trick?
I've been playing through the whole beta and I'm still making mistakes... but I'm consistently reaching the last sector and feel fairly certain I can beat the boss. The times I don't I recognize the mistakes I did.


Reaching the sector and thinking you can beat the boss is one thing. Doing so if all repair stations and shops in the final sector are gone after two jumps is another. Before saying "hull repair drone" remember that they show up in only about 1/2 to 2/3rds of games. Beating the final boss 3 times with no repair resources isn't a matter of skill, it's blind luck.
curithwin
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 12:42 pm

Re: Not hard, just random.

Postby curithwin » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:59 am

Isn't that why the game is so re-playable? The randomness making each game individual. No matter how you play.
Maze1125
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 12:09 pm

Re: Not hard, just random.

Postby Maze1125 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:03 am

Joush wrote:Beating the final boss 3 times with no repair resources isn't a matter of skill, it's blind luck.


Lol wut?
That's how I fight the boss pretty much every time, and I win more times than not when I do.

Again, how can you be sure that you know the game well enough to know every trick and every strategy? That you know what the "right" move actually is? I certainly sounds to me like you haven't yet, and don't yet.
Darthcaboose
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:14 pm

Re: Not hard, just random.

Postby Darthcaboose » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:06 am

The challenge of FTL is to take the luck given to you in a game and make the right decisions based on what's going on.

Game just gave you some awesome weapons? You might want to forgo the use of cloaking and the crew teleporter to build you ship around using that; or maybe you want to get some more defensive equipment to help you out there. Flying around finding nothing but drone parts? Perhaps you should consider getting a Drone Systems!

Of course, sometimes you'll be so out of luck that you'll quickly end up dead, but sometimes you can pull through back luck if you play it right!
Joush
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:19 am

Re: Not hard, just random.

Postby Joush » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:12 am

Maze1125 wrote:
Joush wrote:Beating the final boss 3 times with no repair resources isn't a matter of skill, it's blind luck.


Lol wut?
That's how I fight the boss pretty much every time, and I win more times than not when I do.

Again, how can you be sure that you know the game well enough to know every trick and every strategy? That you know what the "right" move actually is? I certainly sounds to me like you haven't yet, and don't yet.


Yeah..

Reread the first post. My point wasn't that the game is hard (it's not), it's that I dislike some of the basic ideas. The reference to game theory is pretty clearly totally beyond you, so drop out of the thread, you don't have anything to add.

That said, I do enjoy the game. Like Darthcaboose said, the randomness is in many places fun. It's randomness combined with core systems that can result in unwinable situations even if good or optimal choices are made in each node (not a beacon within the game, but a node as in game theory. A point when a player has a set of information and a set of options, with some leading to more or less preferable nodes)
jambonessy
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:03 pm

Re: Not hard, just random.

Postby jambonessy » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:48 am

The game is too random, not just difficult, but random to a point where even perfect play could potentially result in a game you didn't even do well in, never mind completing.

Nethack is a relatively popular rogue-like which has a crazy number of variables and seems impossible to be good at, but the game has been completed 29 times in a row at one point, something that even the greatest player could not accomplish in this game.

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