Just beat the boss on easy. It was easy. :P

General discussion about the game.
Maze1125
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 12:09 pm

Re: Just beat the boss on easy. It was easy. :P

Postby Maze1125 » Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:04 am

Gorlom wrote:
Maze1125 wrote:Yeah, the boss is definitely not a case of "you have to have a specific thing or you lose".
Pretty much the only thing you need against the boss is the ability to do damage through 4 strength shields, which is hardly a surprise. There're enemies you fight before the boss with 5 strength shields! And there are at least 5 different ways to break through shields, you'd have had to have had a pretty bad run to have gotten none of them.

5 ways? Shall we list them? :D
I can think of
1. crew teleporters
2. Missiles & teleporter bombs
3. ion weapons, laser bolt and anti ship drone bombardment
4. boarding drone
5. ...

Have I missed any? (Have I bundled separate ways through the shield together?)


I personally separated number 3.
There's also the Artillery weapon on the unlockable Federation ship. So that's 5 even with ions, lasers and drones counting as 1.
RynCage
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:25 am

Re: Just beat the boss on easy. It was easy. :P

Postby RynCage » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:08 pm

Maze1125 wrote:
Gorlom wrote:
Maze1125 wrote:Yeah, the boss is definitely not a case of "you have to have a specific thing or you lose".
Pretty much the only thing you need against the boss is the ability to do damage through 4 strength shields, which is hardly a surprise. There're enemies you fight before the boss with 5 strength shields! And there are at least 5 different ways to break through shields, you'd have had to have had a pretty bad run to have gotten none of them.

5 ways? Shall we list them? :D
I can think of
1. crew teleporters
2. Missiles & teleporter bombs
3. ion weapons, laser bolt and anti ship drone bombardment
4. boarding drone
5. ...

Have I missed any? (Have I bundled separate ways through the shield together?)


I personally separated number 3.
There's also the Artillery weapon on the unlockable Federation ship. So that's 5 even with ions, lasers and drones counting as 1.


Oh, so i just Need to have somthing, Like crew teleporter, Or enough missles, Or enough ion weapons, Or enough drones and drone parts.
Sounds like a case of "you need somthing specific or you cant beat the boss".
The variety of specific ways you can beat the boss doesnt detract from the point i was making.
The bossfight shouldnt just be a Gearcheck. thats lame.
Gorlom
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:06 am

Re: Just beat the boss on easy. It was easy. :P

Postby Gorlom » Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:23 am

RynCage wrote:
Oh, so i just Need to have somthing, Like crew teleporter, Or enough missles, Or enough ion weapons, Or enough drones and drone parts.
Sounds like a case of "you need somthing specific or you cant beat the boss".
The variety of specific ways you can beat the boss doesnt detract from the point i was making.
The bossfight shouldnt just be a Gearcheck. thats lame.

In what game with an inventory do you NOT need to have good enough gear to kill a boss? In what game like that can you beat every boss with only your starting equipment?

we listed 4-6 DIFFERENT ways to get through the shield. In my book that kind of invalidates the gear check argument but ok I'll acknowledge that your opinion differs from mine.

But if you could redo the encounter, how would you do it to prevent it from being a gear check... without making it trivial? :?: what would you improve?
ShadowDragon8685
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:45 am

Re: Just beat the boss on easy. It was easy. :P

Postby ShadowDragon8685 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:02 am

Gorlom wrote:
RynCage wrote:But if you could redo the encounter, how would you do it to prevent it from being a gear check... without making it trivial? :?: what would you improve?


Make the superweapons and the AI control core* targetable subsystems.

"Oh, you have a boarding party of elite hand-to-hand Mantises, three bomb launchers, and a boarding drone? Your entire battle strategy is based around disabling the enemy's systems, weapons-first, and then pecking their hull apart? Too bad, I'm gonna pull an invincible superweapon you can't do anything about out of my aft."

An all-or-nothing hell-or-glory assault to frag the superweapons before they frag you should be possible.


*The AI control core bugs me on the rebel drones, too. At the very least, I think it should need a drone room with system repair drones to repair, not automatic bullshit borg slithering-cables repair systems. (Or, conversely, can I have that as an augmentation for my own ship?)
Frustrated by random things beyond your control killing you?

Maxim 31: only cheaters prosper.
RynCage
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:25 am

Re: Just beat the boss on easy. It was easy. :P

Postby RynCage » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:22 am

Gorlom wrote:
RynCage wrote:
Oh, so i just Need to have somthing, Like crew teleporter, Or enough missles, Or enough ion weapons, Or enough drones and drone parts.
Sounds like a case of "you need somthing specific or you cant beat the boss".
The variety of specific ways you can beat the boss doesnt detract from the point i was making.
The bossfight shouldnt just be a Gearcheck. thats lame.

In what game with an inventory do you NOT need to have good enough gear to kill a boss? In what game like that can you beat every boss with only your starting equipment?

we listed 4-6 DIFFERENT ways to get through the shield. In my book that kind of invalidates the gear check argument but ok I'll acknowledge that your opinion differs from mine.

But if you could redo the encounter, how would you do it to prevent it from being a gear check... without making it trivial? :?: what would you improve?

Remove the "power surge detected" elements from phase 2 and 3, and or- link them to a system in the ship that if disabled: shuts them down. [I.E, its drone attack in phase 2 shouldnt work when the drone system is disabled]
If youd want to say that makes the fight way to easy, you could instead change the fight into more of a gauntlet. more rebel ships, stronger rebel ships more often, ect.

Everything leading up to the bossfight is very solid. You need approach your choices, and the combat strategicly. the bossfight on the otherhand, is "hope you can do enough DPS because <unavoidable attack here> [unless you have cloak, a 2 in one gearcheck.]" You can't sit there and tell me it isn't completely cheesey.

Another way you could go about it is to not put the bossfight on a timer, instead it sits at "the back of the fleet" so you can continue to fight and farm untill you make up for the gear you unfortunatly didnt get, the penalty being: unless you play smart, its hulldamage you'll be taking that you cant fix the more you grind.

Yet another way you could improve on this is to make everything before the boss scale in difficulty better. Make everything leading up to the boss harder. Sector 7 shouldnt end up being a cakewalk every game but get steamrolled in sector bosstown. But really i feel my first suggestion would pull it back enough to make deafeat at the hands of the boss feel justified, rather then die just because It has an off the wall gimic in phase 2 and 3.

It really only feels like the boss was designed in a way that kills you because "if you didnt die a whole lot it wouldnt be a rougelike would it?". i suppose the pacing is just way off and makes the end bit feel wrong.

EDIT: also, i agree with what shadow said.
Maze1125
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 12:09 pm

Re: Just beat the boss on easy. It was easy. :P

Postby Maze1125 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:50 am

RynCage wrote:Everything leading up to the bossfight is very solid. You need approach your choices, and the combat strategicly. the bossfight on the otherhand, is "hope you can do enough DPS because <unavoidable attack here> [unless you have cloak, a 2 in one gearcheck.]" You can't sit there and tell me it isn't completely cheesey.


But you don't need a cloak. It's quite possible to survive both super-weapons without a scratch without a cloak. You'll probably need max shields or max evade instead, but that doesn't make it a "gear-check" as those are the 3 defensive measures that exist in the game.

The boss has no gear-check at all. Whatever strategy you choose to play the game with, you can beat the boss with, provided you have enough of it. Yes, if you attack the boss with a single burst laser and no teleport, then you're going to lose, but that's just like any other roguelike, or any other role playing game for that matter, if you try and fight the final boss with equipment from the first couple of areas, you're not going to win. I don't know why people are finding that a surprise.
RynCage
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:25 am

Re: Just beat the boss on easy. It was easy. :P

Postby RynCage » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:01 am

Maze1125 wrote:
RynCage wrote:Everything leading up to the bossfight is very solid. You need approach your choices, and the combat strategicly. the bossfight on the otherhand, is "hope you can do enough DPS because <unavoidable attack here> [unless you have cloak, a 2 in one gearcheck.]" You can't sit there and tell me it isn't completely cheesey.


But you don't need a cloak. It's quite possible to survive both super-weapons without a scratch without a cloak. You'll probably need max shields or max evade instead, but that doesn't make it a "gear-check" as those are the 3 defensive measures that exist in the game.

The boss has no gear-check at all. Whatever strategy you choose to play the game with, you can beat the boss with, provided you have enough of it. Yes, if you attack the boss with a single burst laser and no teleport, then you're going to lose, but that's just like any other roguelike, or any other role playing game for that matter, if you try and fight the final boss with equipment from the first couple of areas, you're not going to win. I don't know why people are finding that a surprise.


Are you confused about what a gearcheck is? You're telling me it isnt a gearcheck, then explaining about how its a complete gearcheck.
Also, you can buy cloak for 150, no need to upgrade it because it lasts long enough to bypass either of the bosses "super" attacks.
Or spend roughly 675 scrap [give or take which starting ship you use] for those max sheilds and evade instead.
Yes, 3 completely viable defensive measures obviously. Oh, and you also need enough DPS or your just wasting time with the whole survivability thing.
I understand you shouldnt be able to beat the boss with a starting loadout, But i never said thats what i expected to be the case to begin with.
RynCage
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:25 am

Re: Just beat the boss on easy. It was easy. :P

Postby RynCage » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:13 am

For all intents and purposes, Scrap is "gear".
The difficulty level and ship you take add to your starting amount of Gear.
How much Scrap you get is randomized each game. [Rougelike]
What you use Scrap on is skill related.
Repairs cost scrap so, in turn we can say that damage removes gear.
Damage you take is somewhat random and somewhat skill related.
DPS [weapons, drones, ext] Is also "gear"
Where you find shops is random.
What shops are filled with is random.
In Game Events can add or subtract from your gear.
Considering all of the factors above:
If by sector 8 you didnt get enough Gear, you can't beat the boss.
I feel the boss requires too much gear to defeat, given the difficulty of rest of the game.[Opinion]
i feel they should Make the rest harder, or tone down the boss Slightly. [Opinion]
Last edited by RynCage on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gorlom
Posts: 519
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:06 am

Re: Just beat the boss on easy. It was easy. :P

Postby Gorlom » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:18 am

So you want the secret super weapon of the rebel army to scale like a common enemy? :shock:
Maybe it is a gear check. Maybe I want it to be a gear check. :?

You don't really fix the problem you just want it to scale differently... I don't agree with you, but I give up on this discussion. You can't please everyone.
RynCage
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:25 am

Re: Just beat the boss on easy. It was easy. :P

Postby RynCage » Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:21 am

We agree to disagree then.
I don't have as easy a time writing it off like that.

But regardless of what is or isnt done with the boss, FTL is great fun and well worth the money. I hope they add more to it going forward.

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