Love the game, hate the random

[5thHorseman]

And after this many playthroughs, it's quite literally all that is left that's fun.

5thHorseman, you might want to try out the Captain's Edition mod. It has many new and exciting way to screw you over.

Don't misread me, this is enough. I'm just afraid that people complaining so much about the randomness will cause the programmers to remove it

Onward to sector 5,

2:20 A teleporter would have been nice. since you are low on crewmembers. A teleporter and a medbey are best when it comes to increasing your crew roster, the former more so than the latter.

Personally, I find a teleporter and a Glaive Beam to not mesh well. Considering how I did in this run, I'd likely have accidentally killed my guys.

You stopped saying what video you were doing

8:35 Running from combat is running from scrap. You coud have easily destroyed the ship.

While I could have destroyed it, I don't agree with "easily." My hull was high enough though that I should have stayed.

15:02 Engines could use some love here.

I totally disagree. 5 engines is all I ever need unless I literally have nothing else to power. Especially with a cloak. The big problem here is that in those 2 hours, I forgot that I wanted to upgrade weapons.

Sector 7

4:25 You might have benefitted from the offense one.

I am a total complete non-fan of the offensive drones. I'm actually a bit surprised I didn't sell it.

5:28 That's why I like Halberd Beam more!

Interesting you say that, after I did 4 damage to a ship that would have been untouched by the Halberd

As far as that one fight goes, yeah I boned it up. But it's a testament to how much you can overcome the "randomness" screwing you over, considering what happens after.

11:36

[Twinge]

Haven't been following the video analysis carefully, but I'll note this - I generally would not upgrade Engines past Level 5 in the base game either (and hell, still rarely do in the Balance Mod) - the cost effectiveness drops *sharply*. It's not an awful idea, but I'd just usually rather put my scrap and power allotment elsewhere. (Check my post here for more details about engine cost effectiveness: http://www.reddit.com/r/ftlgame/comment ... ctiveness/)


I've been thinking about streaming 10 Nesasio runs in a row and expecting to win... well all of them to be perfectly honest, but at a bare minimum of 8 out of 10. I'm 1 for 1 so far. Got 125 scrap gross for Sector 1 (unsure past that, though it'd be easy to review the footage if desired), and also saw that nearly every sector had 11 safe beacon hops (I believe one sector had 10). Also voluntarily jumped into an asteroid field just for funsies before buying my Shields - took 8 hull damage because I was a little unlucky and my Weapon System got hit twice; still a slight net gain after repair costs.

[Twinge]

Now 2 for 2 with the Stealth A. So far I'm doing some silly stuff each run too - this time whenever I boarded I only used Engi crewmen - to decent effect. Boarding + weapon support is really strong even with weaker boarders. Followed it up with a Slug B run where I (almost) exclusively used boarding and never bought a Medbay.

[Nevill]

Ok, I'm back.

True, but I didn't know that at the time

Didn't know it, or couldn't have known? I looked at the path you proposed and instantly thought: 'No way he'll make it to the exit before rebels do', though I suppose if this run was early in your FTL career, you might not have known.

While I don't think upgrading the shields was as much of a screwup as you do, it WAS based on faulty calculations on my part. I was thinking I had to get 4 weapon ticks to get the Glaive running when I really only needed 3. I could have actually gotten it and the dual lasers going albeit without power, and I think I should have.

I am not saying it was a game-ending event (obviously, it wasn't), but they got you in more trouble than you otherwise would be in. Because you had no firepower, you had to flee several ships without a reward, and 1 ship had fled before you could destroy it. Because you had no scrap, you had to avoid shops. And I can't see a fight where they did make a difference. Repair costs would have been easily offset by extra scrap that you could have got from the battles you had to skip.

If only every 4th sector enemy only needed a level 2 shield to completely thwart...

The further into the space you go, the less you can thwart 'completely', i.e. disable the engines, set weapons on autofire, watch the game do it for you. What would you need completeness for? Cloak and 2 shield bars can take you far enough... hell, the cloak alone can take you through the game.

Personally, I find a teleporter and a Glaive Beam to not mesh well. Considering how I did in this run, I'd likely have accidentally killed my guys.

They aren't exactly the best combo, but they do ok. Once you suppress their shields, you do one surgical strike with a Glaive Beam... anywhere, really, just make sure to target weapons. Beams are great because they target several rooms at once. If you graze shields, they will be down 2 shield bars, so your lasers might actually work fine. If you target the medbay, they become boarding ready right off the bat. The thing is, without 3 power bars in weapons, they become toothless, and your borders should prevent them from repairing pretty much anything, so you do not need to fire Glaive Beam twice. If you ever do, try to not hit too many rooms at once, just important ones. Besides, you can pick how much damage you do by firing a beam when they still have shields.

Of course, it requires a certain amount of attention from the player, but well, is there anything in this game that does not?

I totally disagree. 5 engines is all I ever need unless I literally have nothing else to power. Especially with a cloak.

I am going to dedicate a separate post to this one. Just you wait.

I am a total complete non-fan of the offensive drones. I'm actually a bit surprised I didn't sell it.

So, you yourself say "I've got to take out their shields"... and do nothing to actually take 1 extra bar? You can wait until the drone is in firing position, switch it off, wait for the lasers to charge, fire them, swith the drone on, and you get 1 extra chance at piercing their shields, and that is 3-5 extra damage from a Glaive Beam. For just 1 second in which you put 2 power into the drone! How could you even contemplate to sell that, especially when you often find your ability to pierce shields lacking?

Let's do some quick math. Suppose they have lvl 4 engines and thus, 20% evade. Suppose you have 4 shots with a laser, like you just did. The probability for the Glaive Beam to do maximum damage (that is, if if all 4 lasers connect) can be found thusly:

Code: Select all

P(k=4, n=4) = p^4
where n = number of total laser shots, k = number of hits you need, p = hit probability

Meaning it is only at 41%. Not exactly great.

Now if you add a drone into the equation, let's find out the probability to do maximum damage.
using Bernoulli's formula

Code: Select all

P(k;n)= Binomial(n,k) * p^k * (1-p)^(n-k)

we get

Code: Select all

P(k>=4, n=5) = P(k=4, n=5) + P(k=5, n=5) = 5*(0.8^4)*(0.2) + 1*(0.8^5) = 1.8 * 0.8^4 = 1.8 * P(k=4, n=4)

That is, the probability to do maximum damage is now at a whooping 74%, almost double than what it was. And the difference only gets more pronounced as p goes down (the more engines they have, the more you benefit from extra shots).

How can you say no to that?!

Interesting you say that, after I did 4 damage to a ship that would have been untouched by the Halberd

If only you used the drone more often, it would not go untoched for long.

Actually, if the enemy is left with 2 shield bars after you fired the lasers, you might be better off not firing the Glaive, instead waiting for the lasers to charge once more. It is (4 damage in 25 seconds) vs the possibility of doing (12 damage in 25+14 seconds). Obviously, the latter is better, but it is only a chance.

As far as that one fight goes, yeah I boned it up. But it's a testament to how much you can overcome the "randomness" screwing you over, considering what happens after.

There wasn't much random involved in this fight. You have neglected your shields and your offensive power (using the defense drone all the time instead of switching between defense and offense ones). Though the run does make a point of how it is never a good idea to surrender.

-------------------------------------
And the last sector.

1:20 Drone is like 'Naah'.

2:30 Backtracking is avoiding scrap. There was at least 1 other route. Of course, you can take on the Flagship with the current setup, but you are making it harder on yourself.

3:38 That was the correct thing to do, and you hated it?

3:50 Exactly!

5:28 Once the boarders ran out of cockpit, you could have directed your Rock there. He could have withstood asphyxiation while O2 lvl2 normalized air pressure. That way, you would have kept your dodge.

5:45 Meanwhile, two patients stand in the unpowered medbay.

5:51 If only you could have made 1 more shot... right?

7:19 This is the case with all beam weapons. I am surprised that you had neglected the drone for so long.

8:10 Good, but don't forget to bring it back online when you need it...

8:27 FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU

11:47 But you don't really need them at the same time.

12:03 What? I'm not saying anything.

You could have used your Rock to board weapon stations, but at this stage, you no longer need it to win.

12:31 Why take extra risk by opening all doors?

15:27 Speaking of upgrades...

15:42 You only needed to deal 1 extra damage with the drone.

It is too late to try and fix the cockpit now. Best course of action would be cloaking for 10 seconds, waiting for the weapons to charge, and firing a burst of 5 lasers. Would have prevented 3 hull damage and a heart attack.

18:16 You took, like, 6 hull damage, total. You were doing fine. Now, THIS is getting raped.

19:29 Taking the pilot on a trip again.

20:10 Congrats!

Several of these might look like nitpicking, but I just wanted to show tiny little details that might have gone unnoticed otherwise.

[UltraMantis]

<3 MAX engines.

It's true you hit diminishing returns on higher levels but extra evasion can still be worth it at that price. The highest level however is a better improvement and i have never regretted spending the scrap to have it. It may be personal preference.

Such high engine power isn't neccesary throughout the fight in most cases, so reactor upgrades don't need to match engine upgrades. I will typically have much lower speed and only increase it when shots are incoming. It depends on the enemy though, and there's times the RNG throws tantrums and decides that you absolutely must die. In such cases having huge evasion vastly increases shield life, or simply makes FTL recharge take mere seconds.

[spacecadet13]

Nev, Your boarding choices made my argument for me! How selective can you possibly get! Boarding two ships that have the fewest number of crew in the game, one of which is frequently an Engi...you could hardly have selected easier ones to board on, except maybe for the Engi crusier with two engis only.

And the pirate?...well, its got two mini-beams and a heavy laser against your d-drone II and two shields, it ain't gonna do any damage to your ship regardless of what you do or how long it takes, so yes, for that battle, you can, take your time, pick off their systems, shuttle your crew back and forth, and win by boarding. Slow clap.

Three "can't lose", almost perfect scenarios, do not show that boarding without rocks/mantis/crystals is anything like a viable strategy. It can work, in individual battles, no question, but the fact that even when challenged, and with all the time you wanted to do it, you chose only screenshots of the easiest possible scenarios speaks volumes for how difficult and/or risky it is against ships that are actually a threat to yours and have even moderately difficult enemy crew or greater numbers.

I'm amused that you took the time to do it. Now waiting with baited breath for your screenshots of your heroic engi/human/whatever taking down that mantis bomber crew...and again, I'll repeat, even if it can be done, it's still a bad idea!

Not even going to bother answering the rest. By now, we are long past 'everyone is entitled to their opinion' stage and far into 'la-la-la can't hear you' land. Ignorance is indeed a bliss. I wonder, did you make a single factual statement in this thread that turned out to be true?

Mate, you are the guy who wrote, in your own words, that the only difference between easy and normal was the amount of scrap..how factual is that? Was my comment about cloaking early and missing out on the 60% dodge bonus not true? And most of my other points of discussion come down to opinions, individual game/ship experiences and playstyles.

You're trying to come across like an elite player, on the order of 5th of Twinge, but you're just not. Your 'critiquing' of 5th's excellent playthroughs is just pathetic. ANYONE can look at someone elses runs and say "oh, I would done this, you coulda done that..." but most people are smart enough not to, because they have enough self-awareness to know that actually doing it would make them look like total git and complete wanna-be. There's a reason why no-one else is doing play-by-play analysis of other players runs. You're special.

[The Captain]

I woudn't board with Engi or Zoltan myself, but if Humans or Slugs are the least squishy meatsacks I have, then I'll use them. Sure, they don't last as long as Mantises, Rocks or Crystals, so you just beam them back, heal up and send them in again - providing they don't have a Medbay or you can disable it. You don't have to have the best boarding races.

[5thHorseman]

FTR I don't mind the criticism and for the most part I agree with it. It doesn't actually help me all that much, though I did reconsider my sector-3 strategy of "3 shields if you can" and am experimenting with "3 shields if you can, but make sure you can get through 3 shields reliably."

Many of Nevill's nitpicks fall into what I consider "micromanagement Hell." I am not willing to do the micromanaging that will get me up from winning 95 percent of the time to winning 99 percent of the time. I'm not going to juggle power between 2 drones, my med bay and my oxygen when I can just spend 60 scrap to get the power, no matter how many hits I take because of it. I'll do that sort of stuff a little bit when I'm in a bind, but that is and will never be my main strategy. It'll be a temporary strategy to deal with an abnormal situation or to get something working when I can't afford that one power.

And UltraMantis, I also love full engines. 55% dodge and 4 shields is awesome. However, I think a much stronger defense is 40% dodge, full cloak, and a defense drone which (unless I'm figuring wrong but I don't think I am) actually uses one less power and is a lot cheaper in scrap cost to implement. That said, most of my extra scrap goes into engines so I can pump extra power into them whenever I can.

[Nevill]

Nev, Your boarding choices made my argument for me! How selective can you possibly get! Boarding two ships that have the fewest number of crew in the game, one of which is frequently an Engi...you could hardly have selected easier ones to board on, except maybe for the Engi crusier with two engis only.

I can get as selective as it is required to prove a point. You told me that boarding mantis ships or ships with a medbay is a terrible idea, so I played the game until I encountered such a ship and boarded. 3 ships met in 20 minutes, all boarded with no damage.

But yes, it is much easier to believe I picked which ships to board and picked which screenshots to post. Why not go all the way and claim that the game was hacked or the pics were photoshopped, instead of conceding your point?

And the pirate?...well, its got two mini-beams and a heavy laser against your d-drone II and two shields

How dare I buy DDII or upgrade shields! I should have played this game like a moron, this would surely had proven that doing trivial things is impossible.

it ain't gonna do any damage to your ship regardless of what you do or how long it takes, so yes, for that battle, you can, take your time, pick off their systems, shuttle your crew back and forth, and win by boarding. Slow clap.

*Sigh*. These 3 ships weren't the only ones I boarded, and not once had I shuffled the crew back and forth. I go in, I win, then I call them back.

I find it hilarious that you can clearly see on screenshots that crew health only goes down during the engagement on their ships, yet you can not believe your eyes and cling to the tiniest possibility that it was harder than I made it look. It wasn't.

Three "can't lose", almost perfect scenarios, do not show that boarding without rocks/mantis/crystals is anything like a viable strategy. It can work, in individual battles, no question, but the fact that even when challenged, and with all the time you wanted to do it, you chose only screenshots of the easiest possible scenarios speaks volumes for how difficult and/or risky it is against ships that are actually a threat to yours and have even moderately difficult enemy crew or greater numbers.

The logical fallacy is so glaring it just boggles my mind.

I'm amused that you took the time to do it. Now waiting with baited breath for your screenshots of your heroic engi/human/whatever taking down that mantis bomber crew...and again, I'll repeat, even if it can be done, it's still a bad idea!

Don't hold your breath. Get a ship with a crew of 4+ engies, get half-decent weapons that can disable medbay/weapons, and navigate it to the nearest mantis sector, post a save. Because I am not going out of my way to assemble it myself just to prove something to a random dude on the internet.

Mate, you are the guy who wrote, in your own words, that the only difference between easy and normal was the amount of scrap..how factual is that? Was my comment about cloaking early and missing out on the 60% dodge bonus not true? And most of my other points of discussion come down to opinions, individual game/ship experiences and playstyles.

I said I never played on Easy, so I took what the game told me at face value. I was wrong, I admit. At least I didn't call people that corrected me 'noobs '.

Your comment about cloaking early was not relevant to the discussion. Read my example again, it was very specific. If your weapons charge faster than theirs, with cloaking you get to do 2 free shots, up to 4 damage with starting weapons. This is enough to disable theirs before they shoot. Yes, you lose dodge, but what does it matter if they can't shoot you? Also, see my example on a ship with a Pike beam and a Dual laser, where it is undoubtedly beneficial to cloak right away.

Your opinions are fine as long as they are positioned as such, but you try to pass them off as undeniable facts. Good luck with that.

You've got even fewer clues about boarding. My comments were specifically about the weakness of the Stormwalker, and boarding with Slugs from the start, and are just facts, nothing more. Engi's? Yeah, that's boarding 101 right there. By the time you'd done enough damage to the enemy crew to let you port over Engi's to finish them off, you'd have blown the ship up twice.

Hey, I almost forgot. It's sector 2. DDII + Telepad lvl2 + Shields lvl2 + Drones lvl 4 + reactor power = 100 + 105 + 50 + 30 + ~75 (ish?) = 360 scrap. U JELLY, BRO?

Your 'critiquing' of 5th's excellent playthroughs is just pathetic.

Oh, sorry, I forgot to ask your permission.

Many of Nevill's nitpicks fall into what I consider "micromanagement Hell." I am not willing to do the micromanaging that will get me up from winning 95 percent of the time to winning 99 percent of the time. I'm not going to juggle power between 2 drones, my med bay and my oxygen when I can just spend 60 scrap to get the power, no matter how many hits I take because of it. I'll do that sort of stuff a little bit when I'm in a bind, but that is and will never be my main strategy. It'll be a temporary strategy to deal with an abnormal situation or to get something working when I can't afford that one power.

Micromanagement can never become or replace main strategy. If you can't break through their shields and can't teleport, no amount of micro can compensate for lack of weapons. It is an emergency tool which I find is often worth the effort when it comes to whether or not I lose a run that I put some time in.

I hate to bring up that drone too often, but more than once you yourself made a point of how it would be cool if you could hit them one extra time, and the means to do it were just sitting in your pocket, unused. At this stage, I would no longer consider it micromanagement and would have made it a part of general strategy/loadout instead.

I wanted to comment on strategy (upgrade picking) part more, too, but we have quickly found that our opinions differ greatly on this one. I emphatize weapons, cloaking and engines, in that order; you go for shields first, weapons later. And it seems that either works, to a degree. FTL is surprisingly flexible in this regard.

[UltraMantis]

...
And UltraMantis, I also love full engines. 55% dodge and 4 shields is awesome. However, I think a much stronger defense is 40% dodge, full cloak, and a defense drone which (unless I'm figuring wrong but I don't think I am) actually uses one less power and is a lot cheaper in scrap cost to implement. That said, most of my extra scrap goes into engines so I can pump extra power into them whenever I can.

DD1 takes 2 power, DD2 takes 4. DD2 is also less common.

I wouldn't really go for the 4th shield, it's very expensive and by the time you have that scrap lying around you should have two excellent people manning helm and engines for a swank evasion bonus. That's not set in stone however, as even having the penultimate shield upgrade can help take more damage and esp. ion damage. The cost is kinda high so i normally stop at the 3rd shield bubble unless playing a Zoltan cruiser in which case 2 is enough. Not that there wont be damage, but it's rare enough. I mean the person manning the station never gets any damn XP since the shield is rarely in action.