disappointed with final boss.

General discussion about the game.
Odek
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:10 pm

disappointed with final boss.

Postby Odek » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:31 pm

First off, this being my first post, I want to say how much I love the game. Its amazing in so many ways and it scratched an itch for a rogue like game that i've had for a long time. One of the things i love the most about it, is all though its graphics and combat system are basic, they are still very unique and the combat is what i imagine to be realistic. (venting air to stop fires, controlling power grids, to give vital systems more power ect.) Yet i cant help to notice that that kind of went out the window on the final boss in one very key aspect. It gets stronger the more you destroy it??

I fought my way to the end many times (sometimes with little struggle, most of the time barely) yet every time i get to the final boss i have a very fun battle with the first part. Then he warps out. So i think to myself, "okay, he barley escaped with his life, let me chase him and finish it." only to find out, not only does he fully heal from the first fight, but hes also around 5 times stronger, now that hes cut into a 3rd. His shields that i completely destroyed are back up and fully repaired, his weapons that i destroyed are back up and fully repaired, and now he has 5 drones attacking me at once. Where as im left with left over fires and destroyed equipment from the last fight. Even the second time and third time, i know better to chase him before i repair, his drones still pick me apart.

Now I'm all for a hard game, hence why i love rogue likes so much, but this last boss fight just took away from the over all experience. I would much rather fight his hardest mode first, then slowly whittle him down as he goes from base to base running from me as our two ships slowly fall apart between battles. I wish the final boss would have been more thought out instead of focusing to much on the "lets make it hard" aspect.
Neverpraying Mantis
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:50 pm

Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby Neverpraying Mantis » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:33 pm

That's ridiculous.

The boss needs to get harder, not easier and I think most folks would argee with that. I understand what you are saying, a ship that gets strategically destroyed should get weaker instead of stronger but come on, gameplay needs to trump "logic". Gameplay-wise and pacing-wise you would want to end the game on a high point with a bang and a feeling of "booyaka, I made it", instead of ending the boss with a whimper.

The boss fight would lose its flair, if you just needed to do everything right in the first 3 minutes and then from then on it's all downhill. I'm actually disappointed because I find the second stage of the boss much harder than the 3rd and I'd rather have it the other way around.
Tekidek
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:29 pm

Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby Tekidek » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:53 pm

One thing I can't understand is that AI. If you kill all the crew then an AI takes over and it repairs the ship automatically, and the general consensus is that it is much worse to fight the AI than the crew.

But if the AI is so much better and harder, then why the crew is there in the first place, lol? I think it is just there so that teleporting your crew is a viable option. But logic-wise, it is unrealistic. Even with the crew alive, the AI should be on, working WITH the crew, not waiting for it to die, then take over. LMAO

And I also agree that the 3rd stage should be harder than the 2nd. Just swap places, lol. Drones last.
UltraMantis
Posts: 2141
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby UltraMantis » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:11 pm

Welcome to the forum Odek.

My feelings about the boss are pretty similar. The only two complaints i have with the game (i can't count the praises, too many :D ) are that the story of the last stand doesn't quite make sense, and the boss fight itself.

For a ship that spends the entire game running away from the Rebel fleet, it makes no sense to turn around and fight the mightiest ship the Rebels have.

The boss fight is designed to succesfully counter various possible strategies (Direct attacks with high HP and insane evasion, boarding with a large crew, backup AI in case the crew is eliminated, etc.) and it's attacks thoroughly test the skills of the player and the survivability of his ship. It's boss attacks are particularly designed to overwhelm and overpower. But is it more about overpowering the hapless player or thoroughly testing him?

The boss does not behave like other ships do and has it's own unique rules. There's nothing to hint at this during the game, the player must learn the peculiarities of that battle as if it were a separate game. This is not only frustrating at the end of a long run, but also rather weak because FTL is at it's strongest when it forces the player to make do with what they have against unpredictable enemies and an uncertain future. The battle at The Last Stand is completely linear and while tough, it's not very interesting. It's only satisfying because the road there was long and arduous and the boss breaks so many rules it feels good to stomp him out.

It would make more sense both from a storyline and gameplay perspective if the Rebel flagship was actually a ultimate secret weapon of The Federation instead. One that is missing a vital piece that your ship is carrying, and then when you finally complete your mission, surprise surprise... it turns on you! And sides with the Rebels in the ultimate act of trecheary. Then it would make more sense to single-handedly save the Federation.
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Geekstra
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:12 pm

Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby Geekstra » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:47 am

I must say that I feel the same way. The game is 100% fun... until the final boss battle.

I play on easy mode, and I even used a mod to remove the rebels from chasing me. I maxed out my ship, found a Glaive Beam, and I STILL couldn't take out the final boss. It's just too powerful for casual players. The only way to win is to spend hours upon hours to learn the game. That isn't what I (or most customers) want from a low-cost casual game. I understand that it needs to be difficult, but I don't expect to be faced against a boss that has more than double the equipment/firepower that I can have. I tried strategy, and I've already told myself that there is no way that I could ever defeat the final boss without a maxed ship... It's just... too overpowering, and definitely makes me want to not even play the game... because why even play when I will spend 30 minutes prepping for an ass-whooping?

EDIT: Just played using the Rebel Flagship Mod, and I STILL couldn't defeat the boss. In the 3rd stage I thought I had him, and then all of a sudden he gains the ability to... power surge... then when his shields are down for the count... suddenly he has a 8-shot disposable shield? What is wrong with this game that I can't beat the boss... with the boss ship... and people are expected to beat it some other way? I bought 3 copies of this. I WILL NOT be giving the others out, I wouldn't wish this frustration and odds-stacking on anyone.

</frustratedrant>

PS: I do love this game, but without some sort of "middle ground" when it comes to the boss fight, I definitely don't see myself playing it much more than I have.
mrguy888
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:33 pm

Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby mrguy888 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:52 am

With cloak and decent shields and evade the only things that can hurt you are the triple missiles which are easy to take out since the are separate from the rest of the ship. Cloak negates the power surges. The boss is too easy if anything.
UltraMantis
Posts: 2141
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby UltraMantis » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:31 am

Geekstra wrote:...It's just too powerful for casual players. The only way to win is to spend hours upon hours to learn the game. That isn't what I (or most customers) want from a low-cost casual game.

The boss is indeed too easy, beacause it's predictable! Yes it does try to overwhelm but it's not at all the hardest ship to face.

If you can make it there, you can beat it. You just have to deal with a few of it's strongest attacks:

1. take out the Tri Missile launcher with boarders. even a crappy teleporter and any two crew who are not engi can do it and survive.
2. invest heavily in getting the final upgrade for the engines. That final 5% bonus makes a huge difference in evasion.
3. don't try to fight power surges. use a lvl1 cloak (even if you have more, use only lvl1) to completely avoid all damage. With MAX engines +cloak your evasion should be >100%
4. have a defense drone MkI ready for stage 2. It will shoot down many incoming boarding drones. If one does get through, it may be better to let it damage the system and then immediatly repair it once it leaves.
5. your weapons need to be able to reduce 4 shields with ludicrous evasion the boss has. burst weapons are best for this. Ions miss a lot, but they fire quick so they may work as well.

If you can eliminate the Tri-Missile, shoot down incoming boarding drones, dodge most of the incoming fire, and cloak just as a power surge is about to hit you, there is little the boss can do to you. It doesnt even require a fully upgraded ship, just a few key parts. For example, dont buy the expensive 4th shield, instead buy engines and other stuff.

Best of luck.
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Satonakaja
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:36 pm

Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby Satonakaja » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:34 am

Generally, three shields, >45% dodge, and a cloak are sufficient, and a few defense drones are easy enough to neuter the boss, sure. But then you have problems like unlucky events earlier in the game guaranteeing you won't be able to afford everything you need for the Flagship due to a lack of scrap.

And even then, the flagship can tear your ship a new one or seven due to luck; I've had three missiles hit through 50% dodge (never got a defense drone because I didn't find one), hitting my cloaking. And then a drone swarm happened, and I ended up with half my health being removed and most of my systems damaged and/or on fire.

The flagship, I believe, does need a change, since you are forced into using only a few tactics to defeat the boss, which is always the same. It gets boring being pigeonholed into board missile room -> whittle down shields -> cloak through super weapons after every game. And of course, being a bit less bullshit. Almost every player I know absolutely loves FTL, except for The Last Stand.
Vindaloo
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:14 pm

Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby Vindaloo » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:58 pm

I find that to beat the last boss you don't need a Cloak and Teleport, having only one is enough if the rest of your ship is well upgraded. Having both makes it very easy, once you understand the whole mechanics of the encounter of course. A little trick is to try and fight the flag ship while one spot away from a repair node, so that in between each phase you can go and get repaired.
Geekstra
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:12 pm

Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby Geekstra » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:58 pm

UltraMantis wrote:1. take out the Tri Missile launcher with boarders. even a crappy teleporter and any two crew who are not engi can do it and survive.
2. invest heavily in getting the final upgrade for the engines. That final 5% bonus makes a huge difference in evasion.
3. don't try to fight power surges. use a lvl1 cloak (even if you have more, use only lvl1) to completely avoid all damage. With MAX engines +cloak your evasion should be >100%
4. have a defense drone MkI ready for stage 2. It will shoot down many incoming boarding drones. If one does get through, it may be better to let it damage the system and then immediatly repair it once it leaves.
5. your weapons need to be able to reduce 4 shields with ludicrous evasion the boss has. burst weapons are best for this. Ions miss a lot, but they fire quick so they may work as well.


So basically, you have to have the same layout, same weapons, same strategy every time. That's bogus. The final boss needs to be changed, at least on easy mode. If someone's strategy is boarding, they are doomed. The boss doesn't leave room for alternate strategies, which is a stark contrast to the entire game up until the flagship. A flagship that can only be defeated by playing a certain way is one that isn't balanced and isn't fun. It's just bad.

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