disappointed with final boss.

General discussion about the game.
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Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby breadsmith » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:05 pm

If your strat relied on boarding, kill all but the laser gunner, knock down their shields with your boarders. then plink the thing to death with your guns. Unless you are playing as Mantis or Crystal B, you have no excuses to be at the final boss with no guns. And if you can't kill the enemy crew in the main section of the ship, you weren't very boarding focused anyway.
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Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby UltraMantis » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:35 pm

Geekstra wrote:So basically, you have to have the same layout, same weapons, same strategy every time. That's bogus. The final boss needs to be changed, at least on easy mode. If someone's strategy is boarding, they are doomed. The boss doesn't leave room for alternate strategies, which is a stark contrast to the entire game up until the flagship. A flagship that can only be defeated by playing a certain way is one that isn't balanced and isn't fun. It's just bad.

Not at all. The boss can even be defeated without weapons that cause hull damage, although it takes a very long time. What i wrote is a general description of how to neutralise the threat.

Everytime you play you will have different upgrades/skills/weapons so the even the final fight will be somewhat varied. Despite the predictability of the boss, you can use different strategies. You can win without boarding and cloaking, pound the hull, burn the ship/crew, use ions and drones. The way the player tackles the boss is different each time, but the boss is allways the same and attacks the same way.
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Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby mrguy888 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:58 am

Geekstra wrote:So basically, you have to have the same layout, same weapons, same strategy every time. That's bogus. The final boss needs to be changed, at least on easy mode. If someone's strategy is boarding, they are doomed. The boss doesn't leave room for alternate strategies, which is a stark contrast to the entire game up until the flagship. A flagship that can only be defeated by playing a certain way is one that isn't balanced and isn't fun. It's just bad.

Cloak and teleporters are cheap, common, and very powerful throughout the game. Level one cloak is the best defence per power ratio that you will get by a huge margin.

Boarding can be done against the boss and is very effective. Taking down the medbay is a lot harder than on any other ship you will be facing but still fairly easy. Once you kill all but the laser shooter they all stay dead for each phase. Just teleport on during the next two phases and rampage without anything to stop you. Even if you are not focused on boarding taking down the missile launchers alone are worth the teleporter.

You don't need either system to win if you don't want to buy them. It is harder to win but very far from impossible.
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Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby Neverpraying Mantis » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:24 am

I've won twice on easy now after 40 games of which I would classify about 25 as serious attempts. The other 15 I was just dicking around and made stupid things to unlock some achievements or try out stuff.

I'm certainly not a hardcore gamer, so I cannot understand how the boss is supposed to be too hard for a roguelike.
He can be beaten and I've done it twice with two radically different ships and strategies.

The beauty of this game is the prolonged learning curve. Every time I f*cked up I tried to learn something new from it and often I did. Even with completely random encounters where say... you take a chance and get some crazy dude on board that either kills one of your crew own crew/blows a hole in your hull/becomes a new crewmember, I don't just blinbly click. Depending on which sector I'm already in, it may not be worth the risk depending on the state of my hull and my current ammount of crewmembers, if I have only 3 crew left in sector 6 it becomes high-risk high reward but then I know that I really desperately need people so I might perhaps take my chances, then again other times I don't.

This game is about making good decisions, often under partial uncertainty and either be punished or rewarded. And in both cases you learn new things if you pay attention. Luck is a big factor but good decisions matter equally.
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Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby Internal Auditor » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:33 am

I just have to wonder why you would think it would get easier in the next stages.

I mean, I can get my old Gameboy Advance and play Super Mario 3 and have the bosses have stages where they get harder after every hit I land. Having a boss have stages is an old technique; it's only natural that they would get harder, just like they have in basically every game that has a boss with them has.
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Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby MistenTH » Sun May 05, 2013 2:46 am

I'm new to FTL, having only played 4 times on easy (haven't got the guts for normal yet), and beat the boss 3 times. Did it different everytime.

#1: Kestrel, has BL2, BL2, BL3, 10 shot laser goodness. Never read the forums then, didn't know about all the stages & strategies to use. I just set my guns to autofire on the shield generator, then panicked running my crew around putting out fires, repairing and repelling boarders. Did the same thing for all 3 stages, and the boss just blew up through sheer firepower.

#2: Did it with the Engie/Torus ship. Ion the shields down, then use my guns/attack drones to take out weapon stations etc.

#3: Did it with the slug ship, but used teleporter to warp 2 boarders to each weapon station to reduce its damage. Guns focused on the drone bay for stage 2.

All 3 wins I had, I never ever had cloak. So there's definitely different ways of beating the boss.

And the best thing about FTL, is that unlike so many disappointing AAA and MMO games nowadays, you don't have to be pigeonholed into a min/max build to be "competitive".
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Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby Smauler » Sat May 11, 2013 1:29 am

The last time I beat the boss, using the Basilisk, I had four 2* mantis brawlers. In the first phase, I'd just sorted out their missiles, so I sent them into the shield bay. The one thing I'd forgotten was that I had a couple of burst laser I's that had already fired on it (the firing icon was gone, the shots were already on their way). They turned up at exactly the point the entire room was set ablaze. With big doors. And a whole host of little men who could run in and out to their med bay.

Needless to say, they all died. My remaining crew were 2 rockmen, 2 Engi. My weapons loadout was 2 burst laser I's, and an ion bomb. I thought I'd have no chance....

Turns out I lost 3 or 4 hull points before I won. I had decent cloaking, sent one of my rockmen over each phase to knock out the missiles, and managed to kill the crew in the main ship in phase 2 with strikes to their shields, then their medbay.

Loads of people here seem to advise upgrading engines over shields... I don't, especially with regards to the final boss. I also like defence drones. You need 4 shields, IMO - at least the way I play, you do. I usually hit the final boss with only 4 engine upgrades or so. 4 engine upgrades and 4 drone upgrades with a defence II drone costs a hell of a lot less than 8 engine upgrades, and is similar. I may be in a minority with this opinion though.

The first few times I beat the boss, I just powered through, without cloaking or teleporting. This can be done, if you get lucky with weapons - you don't even necessarily have to be that lucky. If you have a ship that can support 4 weapons, fill it with three 2 power multi lasers and any beam (alternatively two 2 power, one 1 power and a 3 power halberd). Concentrate on the shields and missiles first... your beam should be doing the real damage to both the shields and missiles.

Also... I know it's probably obvious... but never autofire, unless you understand why you are doing it (it's sometimes useful with ion II, or if you have an identical loadout, such as the redtail). You want all of your ordinance to hit at similar times. If you have burst lasers and beam weapons, then almost the entire point of the burst lasers is to take the shields down. If their shields regenerate prior to your beam weapon becoming active, there's no point having that beam weapon. Beam weapons only work with low shields (at later stages, anyway).

Best weapons : Ion bomb, burst laser II, halberd beam, hull laser I, burst laser I, small bomb. The "big" weapons like the glaive beam and burst laser III take forever to charge - unless you pick up pre-ignition augment (which IMO you should whenever possible). If you have a couple of burst laser II's, the pike beam is probably better than the halberd.

I don't like missiles.... perhaps because they turn to useless when something has defensive drones, and need lots of power. The last boss doesn't have any defensive drones, however.

This has turned into a long, long post.... To be honest, if you think the boss is too hard, and want to learn how to beat it, try again, and again. If you don't want to try again, perhaps this game is not for you.
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Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby 5thHorseman » Mon May 13, 2013 11:38 pm

I leave auto fire on, and every round untarget each weapon but the one I want to fire first (usually the one with the longest load time), then I fire each one in succession. I usually don't even pause.

Of course, I sometimes pick a semirandom option when they want to give up, but that happens no matter what strategy I employ :)
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Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby Nekuia » Tue May 14, 2013 2:05 pm

Hm, This topic has forgotten one tiny detail that makes this boss harder as it gets 'weaker' Beside the health and shield thing. When a part of it rips off, it games more power it can use in other places, enter drones. The amount of power those weapons it has would cost, it wouldn't have the spare power to fire the drones it does, until it breaks apart.

The AI, though better then chew counter part, is also just that an AI, set to only be able to do what it is programmed to do. After the battle would be over, the AI would protect it's self from someone trying to steal/destroy the ship, but in reality the only thing it will do is float around waiting to be retrieved or return to base. Why not just leave AI mode on and keep a chew just in case? I would assume turning the AI unit off is not an easy task when the goal it is set to do is not completed, so keep the IA as back up for when all chew mates life signs stop. It is a small detail, yes.

I may of only just got the game a few days ago, but from what I have seen of the game, it makes sense the boss is the way it is. (I Forget the lay out of the flag ship, so I can't say anything on it's third form (That and I never gotten that far fighting it. I lost to it on the second form.))

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Re: disappointed with final boss.

Postby Pyronic » Wed May 15, 2013 7:53 pm

I'd have to say I've never died to the boss. I've died a good deal but it's always been in earlier sectors and never while fighting the boss; usually I meet him strong, or die early. That said, the first time I played I had an experienced friend teach me the boss' weaknesses, so I was never going in blind.

(Also I'm not counting my Nesasio "Going The Distance" achievement hunt where I just speed-ran through the sectors and barely made it to sector 8 with a bunch of achievements in my pocket and a mostly dead and heavily underleveled stealth cruiser. I just quit after that because I got what I had come for and knew that I couldn't fight the boss with this thing.)

Basically I have 4 strategies to deal with him:

1. Laser Spam
This is what I use with the Kestrel cruisers if I can. It basically relies on collecting as much laser firepower as possible and sending waves of fire at the boss and just overwhelm his shields. Burst Laser IIs and Dual Lasers are the most efficient, but Burst Laser IIIs can really help beef up a volley if you have one and can power it. Heavy Lasers and Hull Lasers also contribute but you'd probably want them to be fired with a marginal delay or located at the back of your ship so that they're the last to punch through and deal hull damage, since they deal more of it. Attack drones (normal ones, not beam drones) also help by suppressing one layer of enemy shields. Targeting priorities are the boss' missile launcher, his shields, his other weapons, and in stage 2, his drone system. Defenses are basically as much shields and evasion as possible, at least 1 defense drone I, and cloaking.

For the first stage I cloak for as long as possible after the first missile barrage fires, because that stops enemy weapons from charging, but for the other stages I keep cloaks at 5 seconds (1 power) because it can't prevent Power Surge from charging up and that's all I really I need it for - although some stage 2 power surges are hilariously composed almost entirely of beam drones which can't touch my shields, so I just ignore them and keep the cloak standing by.

Also if I have a teleporter, I will teleport two guys into the weapons rooms to take them out, but don't bother to board the main hull.

2. Ions + DPS
This is what I use with the Engi A (The Torus) and Zoltan B (Noether), which are my favorite direct combat ships. Here I have multiple ion weapons of any and all sorts hack down the boss' shields in short order and then keep one of them pinning the shields down while the others disable the weapons/cloak/drones. Then I use something with very high damage-per-second (DPS) to actually kill the boss, usually attack drones or beam weapons or both, and get the job done quickly. Heavy lasers and hull lasers again work too, and have the advantage of doing more targeted damage to shut down the boss' weapons and drone control early on. Defensive ideas are the same as before, and with Zoltan ships the special shield can help block the first missile barrage if you need to.

3. Boarding + Ordnance
This is what I use with any of the Mantis or Rock ships, with Rock B being my best. Unidentified Cruisers would also use this, although I have not unlocked them. Basically the opening sequence involves using a maxed teleporter to send 2-man boarding teams into the missile and ion launcher rooms to take them out, and maybe drop a bomb or missile on the boss' halberd beam room to get rid of that too. Keep the laser room intact and have at least 3 shield layers so that it's harmless. Then once the stage 1 boss has been disarmed, call everyone back, heal them up, and just before teleporting, bombard the enemy medbay with bombs and/or missiles. Then you want to teleport all your Mantis (quadteleport 4 of them from a Mantis B) in to a disabled medbay (let the Rebs fix any fires/breaches) or teleport all your Rocks into a burning medbay (the more fire the merrier). They'll pretty much slaughter all the enemy crew or at least send them running with low HP. Then teleport back, heal up and go in again preferably to the shield room and kill all remaining Rebels and bring down their shields. All the meanwhile you can keep bombarding them with ordnance, with other top targets being cloaks and door control. Once the enemy crew is dead and the shields are down, all you have to do if bring your guys home and clean house with an attack drone or any energy weapon. Or just missiles if you have a lot of them.
Stage 2 then offers little resistance. Teleport in to the missiles and/or drone room and take 'em out, drop bombs at leisure, and missiles once the defense drone goes down. Use a cloak or defense drone to stall or kill enemy boarding drones. Keep the laser guy alive so the AI doesn't fix things. Drop their shields. Bring 'em down.
Stage 3 needs you to preferentially have an energy weapon or attack drone strip the super shields, although ion bombs can do it pretty easily too. Then it's missile room and shields again. Wash rinse repeat.

Defensive ideas are pretty much the same as before. As for your boarders, keep an eye on their health and on the enemy's cloaking and make sure you don't get them killed because the cloak blocked your teleport. Also, never deploy an attack drone while your boarders are on an enemy ship; they're soulless and will kill your own guys.
An alternative if you don't have missiles/bombs on your Mantis B is to invade the shield room before taking out the medbay, although that's something I have not yet tried.

4. Artillery Stall
This is what I use with the Federation cruisers, and of course it's only possible with them. Usually I don't bother with normal weapons unless I have missiles/bombs, which I use on the enemy's weapons rooms and drone room. If I have a teleporter, I'll also teleport 2 crew into enemy weapons rooms to shut them down, but never go to the main hull. Apart from that it's just full power to the Artillery Beam, and wait.
There is no cloak so max shields and engines are important, as are defense drones. If possible I deploy both a Mk I and a Mk II defense drone, or else 2 Mk Is. Power surges feature the Mk II defense drone making a frantic effort to block every move of the enemy attack drones, which is rather entertaining to watch. But there's not much else to do about them.

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