Hurray! Another multiplayer clone project. :)

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Sleeper Service
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Re: Hurray! Another multiplayer clone project. :)

Postby Sleeper Service » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:53 am

kcd.Spektor wrote:I was using weapons from the Arsenal MOD as model-examples.(Did they use weapons from CE?)
Most of their weapons are from CE yes.

kcd.Spektor wrote:I do agree that some of them look very similar, but some look almost completely different, also you can see that the sizes are different and mine are not animated.
I don't have access to your files and I can't tell from the trailer how similar they are on a per pixel basis. The references where sized up by 100% for more easy comparability. Regardless, proportions and structure of parts of the sprites you used seem identical to my stuff. I find it unlikely that you created the exact same proportions from scratch.

kcd.Spektor wrote:Sleeper service can I please keep the old images in the trailer? Because it took me too much effort to make it. And I don't want to redo everything again.
I promise to replace the images, for these 2 weapons that look very similar, in the game files, with more modified ones before I release the game to public.
Since you'd use these to advertise your product, the licence doesn't really allow that. I have no intention of changing the licence, simply because I want modders to be able to use my stuff, but I'm not that thrilled about people taking my stuff and then selling it/using it to sell things. I won't retract my request, but if you go over my head with this there is little I can do about it I guess. :roll:
kcd.Spektor
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Re: Hurray! Another multiplayer clone project. :)

Postby kcd.Spektor » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:06 am

Sleeper Service wrote:Since you'd use these to advertise your product, the licence doesn't really allow that. I have no intention of changing the licence, simply because I want modders to be able to use my stuff, but I'm not that thrilled about people taking my stuff and then selling it/using it to sell things. I won't retract my request, but if you go over my head with this there is little I can do about it I guess. :roll:

Well then I guess I will have to redo everything I did to make this trailer. :|

It's really sad when you think about it...
To make a game look good you need to hire a good artist.
But when you try to find a way to get some money for it, that same artist blocks you from doing it.

Life's a beach I guess...
kcd.Spektor
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Re: Hurray! Another multiplayer clone project. :)

Postby kcd.Spektor » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:56 am

Sleeper service are you ok with me having weapons like these?

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Sleeper Service
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Re: Hurray! Another multiplayer clone project. :)

Postby Sleeper Service » Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:02 pm

I guess, since its not really recognizable as a CE asset any more. I'm not blocking you from doing anything except using my stuff commercially without permission, just the same as I block everyone else from doing that. Also fun fact: I have no effective means to enforce that at all. I'm just as broke as you are, I couldn't afford legal action, let alone that I would consider that the most whack and pointless thing I could ever do in my life. :D I'm humbled that you considered hiring me for the art and I appreciate it, but that doesn't really factor into my authorships rights over CE stuff.

And honestly I find it unlikely that the game would get through greenlight unscaled, with or without parts of my stuff in there. The art style, colour palettes, and the entire UI is extremely close to FTL in my opinion. The trailer ship has the exact same paintjob as the Kestrel. Parts of the sprites (those depressions in the hull, the airlock sections on the side for example) are directly taken from FTL. The people that might be most interested in your game might also be most likely to consider it a direct rip-off that way. Which is a shame, cause the gameplay on it basic level at least looks somewhat interesting and there is definitely an audience for a multiplayer FTLlike.

I'm also not sure whether the extend you have prepared for running a greenlight campaign is sufficient. As far as I can tell you have no standalone site, studio or social media presence. Pretty much all the PR you are doing is in the Forum of another game (here). If you don't have tons of followers that vote for you then Tachyon might quickly drop into greenlight limbo. And just for reference: There are already twelve games that entered greenlight only today. That's what you have to stay on top off. The people you gathered in the forum are a start, but chances are you'll need more. And you might need channels (twitter facebook...) to also engage strangers with your stuff. In the light of all that Tachyon will have a hard time on greenlight in my opinion. :|

Then again I'm no expert on this by far and I have no practical experience with greenlight, all I wrote here is stuff I've got from articles, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. If you want to learn more on the topic and haven't read that stuff yet I recommend this and this for a start. It seems depending the quality of your greenlight campaign you can get greenlit without trying to engage people outside of steam, but it definitely doesn't hurt to do that.

By the way there is already a game name Tachyon (Tachyon: The Fringe) released in early 2000. It even comes up first in search engines. http://store.steampowered.com/app/32760/
In contrast to me, whoever owns that brand might actually take legal action if your game where to gain popularity. So you might want to rethink that name again. :roll:
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mr_easy_money
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Re: Hurray! Another multiplayer clone project. :)

Postby mr_easy_money » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:02 pm

Sleeper Service wrote:
kcd.Spektor wrote:I was using weapons from the Arsenal MOD as model-examples.(Did they use weapons from CE?)
Most of their weapons are from CE yes.
I apologize if this is slightly off-topic, but yes, there are a variety of assets within Arsenal+ which are definitely CE assets.

@Sleeper Service
I have not yet added the required stuff as per the CE license to my translation attempt of Arsenal+, because I have been busy with studies, which is also why I haven't been able to release any updates. I just thought I'd let you know that adding said stuff will be the first order of business.
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Auron1
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Re: Hurray! Another multiplayer clone project. :)

Postby Auron1 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:54 pm

I would like to spend 2 words on Steam Greenlight: unless you have a wide, solid, base ready to support you, the eventual game you plan to release is likely to be lost (as Sleeper pointed out before me).
Kickstarter can be a good start site if you are planning to get some money in order to further improve your game; otherwise a "combo" Facebook + Twitter can help you acquiring some audience and possibly votes outside Steam. Even a blog can be useful!
I used to check Greenlight games, but I stopped after realizing none was really worth it. :|

Two last suggestions:
1) avoid giving out keys for testing the game unless it's someone you know and trust: there has been a recent controversy on Steam votes, where some games had a completely fake overall judgment because many people had written positive reviews only because they had previously received a free key.
2) I don't know if you're going to have people purchasing your game, in that scenario I suggest to build a DEMO version or at least something to try: there are many games like FTL already available on Steam, so you may wish to offer something more than just the game.

That's my 0.02$.
Has anyone ever considered a Warhammer 40,000 Mod for this game? It would be awesome!
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Sleeper Service
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Re: Hurray! Another multiplayer clone project. :)

Postby Sleeper Service » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:23 pm

I think Auron1 is on the money there, although the way I see it Kickstarter is already compromised by people loosing trust in it. Partially the fault of game designers obviously. At the same time there are way more game one has to compete with there now compare to a few years ago. FTL droped exactly at the right moment there, the years afterwards it became way more difficult to run a succesfull kickstarter (again, not personal experience, just quoting articles).

As from what I've read, running a successful kickstarter campaign is way way more demanding than "just" getting through greenlight nowadays. You might have to spend an entire month on managing and PRing your campaign/backers as the campaign runs. Before that you need to have gathered contact to people that might be interested in your stuff (again, highlighting the importance of social PR). Afterwards you have legacy costs, with potential rewards needing to be delivered and so on.

For further reading: Both Gamasutra and gameindustry.biz have articles on the topic. This are just two illustrating the current kickstarter situation.

Right now I find itch somewhat promising to get a game out there once its done, or at least it feels like there is less (good) competition there and it doesn't has that somewhat murky entry barrier like steam. And the platform is still young and trending. But as Auron1 has pointed out, you'll always need PR in the form of social and online presence to get your game sold. And I still believer wherever you'd publish it in its current form, tracing the image that is FTL (at least on the art side of things), people would eventually tear it apart for or not take it seriously because of that.

And as for funding: Another thing that is developing, at least in Germany where I live, is state cultural funding opening up to indies. But that also requires a lot to show to begin with, applying is a lengthy process and success isn't guaranteed obviously. From where I stand it seems more promising than kickstarter though.
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Auron1
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Re: Hurray! Another multiplayer clone project. :)

Postby Auron1 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:47 am

Sleeper Service wrote:As from what I've read, running a successful kickstarter campaign is way way more demanding than "just" getting through greenlight nowadays. You might have to spend an entire month on managing and PRing your campaign/backers as the campaign runs. Before that you need to have gathered contact to people that might be interested in your stuff (again, highlighting the importance of social PR). Afterwards you have legacy costs, with potential rewards needing to be delivered and so on.


Kickstarter now has a big problem: every* Credit Card company has changed its policy in order NOT TO refund people who spend money on projects which eventually fail. This is a major drawback for people, because they'll think twice before helping game developers.
Another thing: a KS crowfunding campaign can bring unexpected results: on a side, those games which don't get enough money to be released, on the other hand there are games like "Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night", the spiritual successor of Castlevania Symphony of the Night, which received more than 5,000,000$ when the first goal line was 500,000$. Koji Igarashi, the project leader, had to quickly adapt the project adding features after features in order to convince people investing! The last goal was passed when there was around 1 hour left...
In case you're wondering why am I writing all of this, it's just to point out that you should spend quite some time thinking about what you can do and what it's better to be left aside. (BTW, the initial release date of Bloodstained was planned for March 2017, now it's set for the first half of 2018 → and you can bet people are definitely NOT happy!).

Finally, there is a third scenario, which I'll write only for the records. It's name should be enough, actually: STAR CITIZEN.
In case you've been living in a cave, it's (again) a spiritual successor of an old famous game, Wing Commander. However, this time Chris Roberts is creating a whole multiplayer universe, and he has gathered more than 20,000,000$ for his project. The last released videos are just amazing, check them out.
This game was worth to be mentioned also because it's another space-based game: I know Tachyon[provisional] should not be associated with Star Citizen, but many people may only think "Oh, another space-battle game! I'm not interested". Something you may want to avoid at all costs.
Has anyone ever considered a Warhammer 40,000 Mod for this game? It would be awesome!
kcd.Spektor
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Re: Hurray! Another multiplayer clone project. :)

Postby kcd.Spektor » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:12 am

Hello everyone.
Here's the latest update:

1. I recently received an email from Matthew Davis with complaints similar to those of Sleeper Service.
I won't go into details, but the point is that I can't use most of the graphical assets I have in the game right now.
2. Initially I wanted Tachyon to look exactly the same(or as close as possible) as FTL.
But apparently that was a wrong thing to wish for. Because in this case I can't go with this game to public as a commercial project.
3. Also I think Auron1 and Sleeper Service have some points there.
4. So I've decided to stop developing Tachyon(As a multiplayer version of FTL).
5. Soon I will release the latest version of the game a0.7 with the full story-line scenario on itch.io, so you can have a try at it.
6. But this doesn't mean that I'm going to stop developing the game completely. ;)
7. I've decided that I will now dedicate most of my time to finding a pixel art artist that will want to join my project.
8. Also, since I no longer need to have the game looking like FTL, I am going to redesign it, and move the whole theme from space, to underwater.
9. I'm gona have my self some submarines instead of spaceships :)
10. The core mechanics will stay the same(most probably), I might add some new features related to water though.
11. Also I will need to rename the project to something original that is not used by any other game.
12. This also means that I will most probably move my dev log updates from this forum to some other place, not yet sure where to exactly.
13. If you have any suggestions - they are as always welcome.
14. If you have any ideas on how to move the whole space theme/sector jumps/hyperspace/and so on to underwater - they are also welcome.
15. If you know any good pixel art artists that might be interested in joining the project - send them in: Skype: kcd.Spektor Email: kcd.Spektor@gmail.com
I am willing to pay off their work after the game sells, or we can agree on some rev share.
16. Many thanks to everyone for the support so far.

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