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Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:43 pm
by thomasfn
swixel wrote:
thomasfn wrote:I am thinking of supporting both Lua and C# libraries. The reason I don't want to go pure C# libraries is because it means people have to download and install Visual Studio (or some other IDE/compiler) rather than just type scripts in notepad. Lua is also (in my opinion) easier to learn from a "noob's" point of view than C#, as C# kinda throws you in the deep end with classes and interfaces. Obviously none of the issues I described would apply to a (semi)experienced programmer, but I want the modding API to be accessible to both programmers and the more arty kind.


The problem with using Lua at all is you lower the bar and people expect to be able to do complex things with it. If C# is the engine, then wouldn't it make more sense to spend no time on binds, but rather to load data files? Race specs could be put into XML files rather than hardcoded. Special abilities, of course, become an issue, but that's really going to be quite painful to interface between Lua and C# anyway.

thomasfn wrote:We'll see - it's not set in stone yet, if it turns out I have major problems getting Lua to work on mono then I might scrap Lua later down the line.


I wouldn't have a clue if Mono will play nice out of the box with it, but a dylib or so could be thrown together in a worst case scenario anyway.


LuaInterface automatically binds things in a very neat manner. I can pass a class coded in C# directly to Lua and Lua will be able to access all the methods. This means that Lua can access every function of the engine essentially and I don't have to do a thing. Unfortunately, LuaInterface does not play nice with Mono...

Perhaps I should get some more opinions. Any modders reading this? What would you prefer?

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:01 pm
by swixel
thomasfn wrote:LuaInterface automatically binds things in a very neat manner. I can pass a class coded in C# directly to Lua and Lua will be able to access all the methods. This means that Lua can access every function of the engine essentially and I don't have to do a thing. Unfortunately, LuaInterface does not play nice with Mono...


To be fair, I've been operating under a worst case scenario on the interface ... as people seem to prefer data files (which may as well be kept compatible, at least for now?), data should probably take precedence as a point of access. Complex things need full engine access, and as C# is incredibly accessible, the compilers are free, there's little in the way of it other than people not wanting it "enough". While I know that may sound a bit like a stretch, most modders (read: those interested in things beyond simple stat changes) tend to have tools installed, or a will to learn things to do things well/right/properly.

EDIT: Should also clarify, while I have a lot stuff to contribute, I'm trying to work out where things are meant to be going.

Also, why googlecode and not github or bitbucket? It's rather annoying to make push/pull requests there ...

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:23 am
by Grognak
thomasfn wrote:LuaInterface automatically binds things in a very neat manner. I can pass a class coded in C# directly to Lua and Lua will be able to access all the methods. This means that Lua can access every function of the engine essentially and I don't have to do a thing. Unfortunately, LuaInterface does not play nice with Mono...

Perhaps I should get some more opinions. Any modders reading this? What would you prefer?

In my case, I am far more likely to write something in Lua than try to pick up and learn C#.

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:54 am
by Cooly568
Wait, so Overdrive is a complete rework to the system which allows people to mod things they never could before?
(More sectors per play-through, more races, more than 9 ships, new race art, race abilities.)

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:49 am
by Grognak
Cooly568 wrote:Wait, so Overdrive is a complete rework to the system which allows people to mod things they never could before?
(More sectors per play-through, more races, more than 9 ships, new race art, race abilities.)

That about sums it up!

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:57 pm
by fox mccloud
Hi everyone Im new at this game, actually i haven't even started playing yet because i dont wanna ruin the experience as my screen resolution is 1240x600. I seen the screen shot with the option to shange the screen in the OP and I was wondering if it was possible to download the mod yet? I did the the command " git clone https://code.google.com/p/ftl-overdrive/" anyways it seems like a god game ty

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:01 pm
by Darkfrost
Cooly568 wrote:Wait, so Overdrive is a complete rework to the system which allows people to mod things they never could before?
(More sectors per play-through, more races, more than 9 ships, new race art, race abilities.)


I think that's the aim of it, but I don't quite get why they're not waiting to see if the devs will just make stuff like that moddable in the actual game first :-/

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:06 pm
by Kieve
Darkfrost wrote:
Cooly568 wrote:Wait, so Overdrive is a complete rework to the system which allows people to mod things they never could before?
(More sectors per play-through, more races, more than 9 ships, new race art, race abilities.)


I think that's the aim of it, but I don't quite get why they're not waiting to see if the devs will just make stuff like that moddable in the actual game first :-/


Well the impression I get from Justin is that they're still not wholly comfortable with the game being modded at all. GMM meets their criteria for not distributing assets so they don't see anything technically wrong with it, but "for a few reasons [he] won't get into (but mostly time constraints...)," it doesn't look like they're going to actively support modded content, at least "in the foreseeable future."*

Ah well. 'Least we have our own little corner of the forums now, right?

*quotes from private message, though I was asking more specifically about the ability to add custom races and "loosen up" the code for more mod flexibility.

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:40 pm
by Justin
Kieve wrote:Well the impression I get from Justin is that they're still not wholly comfortable with the game being modded at all. GMM meets their criteria for not distributing assets so they don't see anything technically wrong with it, but "for a few reasons [he] won't get into (but mostly time constraints...)," it doesn't look like they're going to actively support modded content, at least "in the foreseeable future."


We soon have to decide how to balance our time between: solving performance & system specific bugs; working with press & going to conferences (i.e. IndieCade if anyone's in LA next week); porting the game to tablets(??); making some sort of updates for the game; trying to prepare the game for localization to other languages; discussing with other potential digital distributors; trying to help with modding; working on other projects that we've wanted to for a while; and taking a break after months of crunching (since we are kinda burnt out...).

Sorry if it sounds like I'm complaining, I'm just trying to give you a perspective on why preparing modding tools has been lower on our priority list. There's just a lot for us to do right now (plus this is our first game so a lot of this is a learning process).

TLDR - For now, don't wait for us if you think you can do things yourself (as long as you're not encouraging the mass distribution of our game's data files, I guess that's our only golden rule).

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:28 pm
by Kieve
Justin wrote:We soon have to decide how to balance our time between: solving performance & system specific bugs; working with press & going to conferences (i.e. IndieCade if anyone's in LA next week); porting the game to tablets(??); making some sort of updates for the game; trying to prepare the game for localization to other languages; discussing with other potential digital distributors; trying to help with modding; working on other projects that we've wanted to for a while; and taking a break after months of crunching (since we are kinda burnt out...).

Sorry if it sounds like I'm complaining, I'm just trying to give you a perspective on why preparing modding tools has been lower on our priority list. There's just a lot for us to do right now (plus this is our first game so a lot of this is a learning process).

TLDR - For now, don't wait for us if you think you can do things yourself (as long as you're not encouraging the mass distribution of our game's data files, I guess that's our only golden rule).


Ah, my apologies for the misunderstanding then. The way you phrased it, I thought it sounded like a "variety of reasons" were personal ones, but put in that context I can see where you've got your work cut out for you. :lol:
I knew bug-fixes were on the list, and the notion of mobile platforms has cropped up a few times in GD that I saw (but didn't know if you two were planning to follow up on those at all or not). The burn-out is also completely understandable, and I don't think anyone on these boards is going to fault you guys for taking a few days to unwind...

As to my original statement, I wasn't actually asking for modding tools - just hoping to see game content (like races, playable ship count, augments, etc) shift from being hardcoded in the engine to being script-defined, even if it's not as easily accessible as the .XML files. I expect even that would constitute a pretty significant chunk of time, and it sounds like your schedule's booked through to the end of the world - at least on a Mayan timescale anyway. :roll: