[MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Discuss and distribute tools and methods for modding. Moderator - Grognak
marksteele
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:32 pm

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby marksteele » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:15 pm

DaFranker wrote:
icepick wrote:That said I wouldn't be surprised to see this grow into something much different than ftl.

That does seem like the natural course of events if the project does stay alive. However, I'm compelled to think of Overdrive possibly becoming to FTL as Onlink was/is to Uplink. If you liked Uplink but have no idea what Onlink is, you're definitely missing out on lots of awesomeness.

Of course, Onlink had the tiny teeny minor little difference (and perhaps advantage, arguably?) that they had actual access to Uplink's source and were working from it as a base, while Overdrive builds up from scratch with a completely different architecture and a big new design goal.


That was my thoughts as well and its why I've supported and promoted this project from the start. To be honest I think the best thing the admins could do at this point is acquire (hire, ask them to volunteer, etc, etc) the people working on this project and them make it official or provide them with the source so they could work on it more.

(also R.I.P Onlink, you shall forever live on in the minds of wanna-be hackers everywhere)


Also as a thought on the project, have you considered adding some built-in moddability? For example something like a ship designer. Right now you have to go to a third party to use one but a built in one would be totally nifty.
thomasfn
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:04 pm

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby thomasfn » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:29 pm

marksteele wrote:Also as a thought on the project, have you considered adding some built-in moddability? For example something like a ship designer. Right now you have to go to a third party to use one but a built in one would be totally nifty.


It has crossed my mind, though such an addition is low priority until the rest of the engine is working correctly - same as multiplayer (unless someone clones and contributes, though the engine probably isn't in the right state for that yet).
DiEvAl
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:46 pm

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby DiEvAl » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:10 pm

Oops, I was working on ships and ship interiors as well. But I think my approach is a more robust, so I'll keep working on it.

BTW in my approach it is possible to make randomly generated ships (both player and NPC).


Can you add me on skype, so we don't work on the same thing again? My skype name is dieval96.
swixel
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:08 am

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby swixel » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:57 pm

I'm going to go ahead and ask this again ...

Why are you using Lua with C#? Wouldn't it make more sense to write an interface for the races, and then to load them from mod binary (cf. dll/so/dylib)? This way more work could be done on the core engine.

Were it in C++, or C, or a handful of other languages, I'd understand Lua for higher level work, but given how easy C# is, and the opportunity to give modders full access to the engine, it seems a little weird.
thomasfn
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:04 pm

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby thomasfn » Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:51 pm

swixel wrote:I'm going to go ahead and ask this again ...

Why are you using Lua with C#? Wouldn't it make more sense to write an interface for the races, and then to load them from mod binary (cf. dll/so/dylib)? This way more work could be done on the core engine.

Were it in C++, or C, or a handful of other languages, I'd understand Lua for higher level work, but given how easy C# is, and the opportunity to give modders full access to the engine, it seems a little weird.


I am thinking of supporting both Lua and C# libraries. The reason I don't want to go pure C# libraries is because it means people have to download and install Visual Studio (or some other IDE/compiler) rather than just type scripts in notepad. Lua is also (in my opinion) easier to learn from a "noob's" point of view than C#, as C# kinda throws you in the deep end with classes and interfaces. Obviously none of the issues I described would apply to a (semi)experienced programmer, but I want the modding API to be accessible to both programmers and the more arty kind.

We'll see - it's not set in stone yet, if it turns out I have major problems getting Lua to work on mono then I might scrap Lua later down the line.
swixel
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:08 am

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby swixel » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:33 pm

thomasfn wrote:I am thinking of supporting both Lua and C# libraries. The reason I don't want to go pure C# libraries is because it means people have to download and install Visual Studio (or some other IDE/compiler) rather than just type scripts in notepad. Lua is also (in my opinion) easier to learn from a "noob's" point of view than C#, as C# kinda throws you in the deep end with classes and interfaces. Obviously none of the issues I described would apply to a (semi)experienced programmer, but I want the modding API to be accessible to both programmers and the more arty kind.


The problem with using Lua at all is you lower the bar and people expect to be able to do complex things with it. If C# is the engine, then wouldn't it make more sense to spend no time on binds, but rather to load data files? Race specs could be put into XML files rather than hardcoded. Special abilities, of course, become an issue, but that's really going to be quite painful to interface between Lua and C# anyway.

thomasfn wrote:We'll see - it's not set in stone yet, if it turns out I have major problems getting Lua to work on mono then I might scrap Lua later down the line.


I wouldn't have a clue if Mono will play nice out of the box with it, but a dylib or so could be thrown together in a worst case scenario anyway.
thomasfn
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:04 pm

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby thomasfn » Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:43 pm

swixel wrote:
thomasfn wrote:I am thinking of supporting both Lua and C# libraries. The reason I don't want to go pure C# libraries is because it means people have to download and install Visual Studio (or some other IDE/compiler) rather than just type scripts in notepad. Lua is also (in my opinion) easier to learn from a "noob's" point of view than C#, as C# kinda throws you in the deep end with classes and interfaces. Obviously none of the issues I described would apply to a (semi)experienced programmer, but I want the modding API to be accessible to both programmers and the more arty kind.


The problem with using Lua at all is you lower the bar and people expect to be able to do complex things with it. If C# is the engine, then wouldn't it make more sense to spend no time on binds, but rather to load data files? Race specs could be put into XML files rather than hardcoded. Special abilities, of course, become an issue, but that's really going to be quite painful to interface between Lua and C# anyway.

thomasfn wrote:We'll see - it's not set in stone yet, if it turns out I have major problems getting Lua to work on mono then I might scrap Lua later down the line.


I wouldn't have a clue if Mono will play nice out of the box with it, but a dylib or so could be thrown together in a worst case scenario anyway.


LuaInterface automatically binds things in a very neat manner. I can pass a class coded in C# directly to Lua and Lua will be able to access all the methods. This means that Lua can access every function of the engine essentially and I don't have to do a thing. Unfortunately, LuaInterface does not play nice with Mono...

Perhaps I should get some more opinions. Any modders reading this? What would you prefer?
swixel
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:08 am

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby swixel » Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:01 pm

thomasfn wrote:LuaInterface automatically binds things in a very neat manner. I can pass a class coded in C# directly to Lua and Lua will be able to access all the methods. This means that Lua can access every function of the engine essentially and I don't have to do a thing. Unfortunately, LuaInterface does not play nice with Mono...


To be fair, I've been operating under a worst case scenario on the interface ... as people seem to prefer data files (which may as well be kept compatible, at least for now?), data should probably take precedence as a point of access. Complex things need full engine access, and as C# is incredibly accessible, the compilers are free, there's little in the way of it other than people not wanting it "enough". While I know that may sound a bit like a stretch, most modders (read: those interested in things beyond simple stat changes) tend to have tools installed, or a will to learn things to do things well/right/properly.

EDIT: Should also clarify, while I have a lot stuff to contribute, I'm trying to work out where things are meant to be going.

Also, why googlecode and not github or bitbucket? It's rather annoying to make push/pull requests there ...
Grognak
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:42 pm

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby Grognak » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:23 am

thomasfn wrote:LuaInterface automatically binds things in a very neat manner. I can pass a class coded in C# directly to Lua and Lua will be able to access all the methods. This means that Lua can access every function of the engine essentially and I don't have to do a thing. Unfortunately, LuaInterface does not play nice with Mono...

Perhaps I should get some more opinions. Any modders reading this? What would you prefer?

In my case, I am far more likely to write something in Lua than try to pick up and learn C#.
Cooly568
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:27 pm

Re: [MOD][WIP] FTL: Overdrive

Postby Cooly568 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:54 am

Wait, so Overdrive is a complete rework to the system which allows people to mod things they never could before?
(More sectors per play-through, more races, more than 9 ships, new race art, race abilities.)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests