The Nighthawk Stealth Fighter [SHIP]

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stylesrj
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Re: The Nighthawk Stealth Fighter [SHIP]

Postby stylesrj » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:50 pm

Well the Federation Cruiser is set post victory or post putting the universe back together.


After you destroyed the Flagship Preview - unless of course you unlocked it pre-AE which I did as well.

With the Zoltan rejoining the Federation. The Mantis is a common species and is found everywhere. Pirate ships often have them, Obviously common on Mantis ships. Is aligned with the Rebel Faction as well, etc.


Actually I don't think the Mantis are aligned with the Rebels. That Engi event does say the Rebels use Mantis ships, but as a disguise. Considering how many Mantises are killed and ships captured or blown up, the Rebels perhaps have whole salvage yards...

Plus they're using Mantis ships as a way to make it look like the Mantis are raiding. The Engies retaliate by using pirate ships, so yeah...

Even in a world with sensors camo is still needed. Look at the real life B-2, that thing is in a world where radar dominates but it is still painted black (night) and grey shades pixel (day, kinda like stealth type B)


Space is pretty big... so big that you shouldn't even be able to see a ship by looking out the window or be flying so close that they can see it out the window (unless you're in a nebula but one problem at a time).
Then again, they are within ranges where missiles and lasers can hit their targets (or miss) so again what do I know about FTL logic :lol:
I'm supposed to have fun shooting up ships.

And raming isn't that easy to avoid. Ramming is more harder to avoid then a missile in some situations. You got the fact you are a huge ship that doesn't have a good specific impulse to go stop suddenly to avoid the hit.


Considering the fact that I usually encounter a Mantis Fighter hunting Rocks and I'm using a huge Rock ship...
Either that Mantis Fighter should be splattered to pieces or it should dodge my ram.

But anyway, all I wanted to do is just make a 'correct' stealth fighter or bomber. What you have here is a federation one. My one is a Engi commissioned ship.


Ok, now I'm thinking of a "Stealth D" where it's in the colours of a nebula. Because if the ship can be seen in space, and sensors don't work in a nebula and you probably do have to look out the viewports/windows... wouldn't it be better to be camouflaged visually there?
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Re: The Nighthawk Stealth Fighter

Postby R4V3-0N » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:12 am

Tell me. How would a bunch of humans manage to clear out the mantis ships of Mantis? ;)
These are kind of the most vicious and dangerous hand to hand combat race there is. The max teleporter space on a ship is 2.... even on the flagship.

Also the Mantis hates the federation. We know that much from certain events.
The Mantis are at war with the Engi.
We know the Engi are part of the Federation and is the backbone of this dwindling Faction.
The Engi and Rebels are at a peace pact so the Rebels and Engi can't engage each other directly.
There is no events off mantis ships attacking Rebel ships, but there is some for fed, engi, slug, zoltan, rock, lanius, and even crystal. But no Mantis verse Rebel conflict in events.

The Rebels could be using the Mantis as a method to take out the Engi without ruining diplomatics with them. Forcing them to withdraw from the war.

Space may be big. But this fight isn't a ship firing a laser from the other side of the universe, The engagement range would be between 1 km or less judging by the speed of the projectiles and how long it takes to reach the enemy. We know it's short enough range for gas clouds to not reduce the laser and beam damage and we know that it is close enough for jodging to occur but a higher probability of hits.

In a Nebula this is a good idea. But keep in mind sensors are a rare thing in the universe. from memory only 2 enemy ships in the entire game have them.

But anyway. a Nebula stealth cruiser would work.

It is an environment worth having camo for. As well as plain open space (type A), atmosphere/ Space (type B), sandy/ dusty environment and certain asteroid clouds (type C). etc.

But yea. every bit of stealth helps. camo is a large factor but I do admit it's more effective in a nebula. This could be the reason of the slug A hue.
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stylesrj
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Re: The Nighthawk Stealth Fighter [SHIP]

Postby stylesrj » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:09 am

Tell me. How would a bunch of humans manage to clear out the mantis ships of Mantis? ;)
These are kind of the most vicious and dangerous hand to hand combat race there is. The max teleporter space on a ship is 2.... even on the flagship.

Also the Mantis hates the federation. We know that much from certain events.
The Mantis are at war with the Engi.
We know the Engi are part of the Federation and is the backbone of this dwindling Faction.
The Engi and Rebels are at a peace pact so the Rebels and Engi can't engage each other directly.
There is no events off mantis ships attacking Rebel ships, but there is some for fed, engi, slug, zoltan, rock, lanius, and even crystal. But no Mantis verse Rebel conflict in events.


Fair enough. Then again maybe the Mantis don't attack Rebel ships because of those automated ships. How can you tear apart foolish meatsacks if there are none onboard to tear apart?

Or the Rebels used the Mantis tactics of swarming the ships against them? The Rebels do after all use everyone else's tech and tactics.

Also the Mantis hates the federation. We know that much from certain events.


The Mantis hate everyone. But they are honourable... one of them is. You know who. (Those ship collectors! They give you a gun if you poke them enough!)

The Rebels could be using the Mantis as a method to take out the Engi without ruining diplomatics with them. Forcing them to withdraw from the war.


Heh, I toyed that that idea in my fanfic. Next to the idea that the Engies(!) were the ones using the Mantis as a weapon.

Space may be big. But this fight isn't a ship firing a laser from the other side of the universe, The engagement range would be between 1 km or less judging by the speed of the projectiles and how long it takes to reach the enemy. We know it's short enough range for gas clouds to not reduce the laser and beam damage and we know that it is close enough for jodging to occur but a higher probability of hits.


Unless you think of combat as rather abstract considering you can upgrade your systems, divert power and then jump away just before the last missile of the battle has a date with your oxygen supply :lol:

But yea. every bit of stealth helps. camo is a large factor but I do admit it's more effective in a nebula. This could be the reason of the slug A hue.


Stealth D would be Nebula-painted... now I've got an idea of a ship made up of nebula clouds :D
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Re: The Nighthawk Stealth Fighter [SHIP]

Postby R4V3-0N » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:32 am

I already made a ship that uses a nebula silhouette instead of those normal cloak images and I also got a ship that is a nebula gas thing.

was gonna release the neb cloak image thing but the ship that used it got outa date and didn't work (used 0x0 rooms)


The Mantis do not hate everyone. As seen in some events. And I do not htink they have a sense of honor... I do not think killing people just because why not is honorable...

Also once you FTL jump you jumped. ofc you avoid contact then but who has time to power up the FTL drive in 3 seconds or so to avoid a ram?
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Re: The Nighthawk Stealth Fighter [SHIP]

Postby stylesrj » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:38 am

R4V3-0N wrote:I already made a ship that uses a nebula silhouette instead of those normal cloak images and I also got a ship that is a nebula gas thing.

was gonna release the neb cloak image thing but the ship that used it got outa date and didn't work (used 0x0 rooms)


I mean the ship actually is made of a nebula cloud. As in, the rooms are built into a massive cloud. Or a big asteroid with engines strapped to it with a nebula cloud around it. Not just when it cloaks.

The Mantis do not hate everyone. As seen in some events. And I do not htink they have a sense of honor... I do not think killing people just because why not is honorable...


I was making a joke as the real obvious choice is Kazaaakplethkalik. You save Kazaaak from death and he decides to join you as a loyal crew member.

Also once you FTL jump you jumped. ofc you avoid contact then but who has time to power up the FTL drive in 3 seconds or so to avoid a ram?


True enough. But again you're flying a massive rock at a tiny bird. Either that bird gets torn apart (rather pitiful that it just loses engine power... but game scripting) or it easily dodges, because... big rock.
Then again, it doesn't pay much attention to you until you start attacking. Or you try and lay low.
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Re: The Nighthawk Stealth Fighter [SHIP]

Postby R4V3-0N » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:20 am

stylesrj wrote:
R4V3-0N wrote:I already made a ship that uses a nebula silhouette instead of those normal cloak images and I also got a ship that is a nebula gas thing.

was gonna release the neb cloak image thing but the ship that used it got outa date and didn't work (used 0x0 rooms)


I mean the ship actually is made of a nebula cloud. As in, the rooms are built into a massive cloud. Or a big asteroid with engines strapped to it with a nebula cloud around it. Not just when it cloaks.

The Mantis do not hate everyone. As seen in some events. And I do not htink they have a sense of honor... I do not think killing people just because why not is honorable...


I was making a joke as the real obvious choice is Kazaaakplethkalik. You save Kazaaak from death and he decides to join you as a loyal crew member.

Also once you FTL jump you jumped. ofc you avoid contact then but who has time to power up the FTL drive in 3 seconds or so to avoid a ram?


True enough. But again you're flying a massive rock at a tiny bird. Either that bird gets torn apart (rather pitiful that it just loses engine power... but game scripting) or it easily dodges, because... big rock.
Then again, it doesn't pay much attention to you until you start attacking. Or you try and lay low.


Let me use realistic examples yet again.

There are many air to air collisions each year that involve a very fast, small, agile plane. and a large heavy aircraft.

half the times it's the big plane coming from behind.



Well there is also a difference between loyalty and honorability. But they are living things too. What ever increases there survival, happiness, etc normally works.
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Re: The Nighthawk Stealth Fighter [SHIP]

Postby stylesrj » Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:11 am

R4V3-0N wrote:Let me use realistic examples yet again.

There are many air to air collisions each year that involve a very fast, small, agile plane. and a large heavy aircraft.

half the times it's the big plane coming from behind.


Again, using the air isn't the best example. It's better than using the sea for a space metaphor but air has this thing called friction... mass, etc. When a spaceship is in motion, it's all about how much thrust you can put into the engines. A smaller ship can make course corrections easier while a larger ship relatively speaking would handle like a pregnant cow. Unless you have level 8 engines. Then all bets are off :D

Well there is also a difference between loyalty and honorability. But they are living things too. What ever increases there survival, happiness, etc normally works.


He also gives you his stash and access to a cool ship he's working on. Plus he's known as the Mantis Thief, not as the Mantis Warrior. What kind of a Mantis must you be to be known as a thief and not a conqueror or leader, etc?

There are also those Mantises operating stores who quickly tell you to come with them before the fleets see you... because they're interested in a trade rather than fighting for the moment. I think we should move this discussion to PM before I start throwing out references to my fanfic (which is how I view FTL lore and interpret it) or other fanfics (which I used to help make the aforementioned fanfic.)
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Re: The Nighthawk Stealth Fighter [SHIP]

Postby NarnKar » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:08 am

Headcanon clashing aside, I still don't see how this ship is viable. Looks like you got wrecked a few times in the video.
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Re: The Nighthawk Stealth Fighter [SHIP]

Postby stylesrj » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:37 am

NarnKar wrote:Headcanon clashing aside, I still don't see how this ship is viable. Looks like you got wrecked a few times in the video.


It's a Stealth Cruiser. They're usually very hit-and-miss when it comes to surviving a run. Like I said before, I did have a good run on Normal with an awesome luck of weapons. I just got too greedy at one point and instead of hitting a store for repairs, decided to take on three more battles with only like 10HP left.

I mean the ship in the asteroid field with the dual artemis missiles were bad enough (especially when they got me while they were dying and my cloak was on recharge. They of course had to breach the hull too!) but the real killer was the one Slug Assault with the engine hack and multiple lasers. Should have went for repairs... should have! Might have won!
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Re: The Nighthawk Stealth Fighter [SHIP]

Postby NarnKar » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:35 am

True, the Stealths can be rather RNG-dependent, but each of the vanilla ones has a great offensive setup. As you say so frequently in your videos, they "tip the scales"--that is, they're battle-enders or very efficient disruptors. I've talked about this before.

The trouble with yours is that basic strategy amounts to this:
-pray you can find hacking
-pray you can find good weapons
-upgrade artillery

Upgrade artillery is the only initially-viable option. Now, let's analyze this. After the first cloak, you're more or less a sitting duck at around 15 seconds in battle. (Why 15 seconds? Cloaking the first volley means 10 seconds of the enemy's charge is wasted by your dodge, and they can't charge their weapons for an additional 5 seconds. Most enemies come with weapons ~10 seconds charge, earlygame.) You fire a shot at around 10 seconds from your Dual Laser, which knocks one enemy weapons power down--but many enemy weapons take only one or two power earlygame, which means that they still have offensive power after your first salvo, even with optimal play. And a good deal of ships (and basic strategy) have a core of "if you can't handle their weapons, take 'em out".

And that's optimal play. What if your dual laser missed?

So at around T=25 seconds you're there, and you basically more or less pray that they don't hit the artillery until T=40 seconds. That's still some guaranteed hull damage from weapons at T=25 seconds, when the enemy has their weapons charged again (15+10=25).

And that's, in my mind, way too much prayer. Especially since in your run, it was lucky weapons drops that got you through--most ships should not have to depend on lucky weapons drops, and that seems like your only viable run so far.

Sorry for rambling on so long. It's just that I can't see how this could survive on its own for a series of dogfights. If there is a way that involves the ship's starting assets, then please do tell me--maybe I'm just missing something obvious and I'm an idiot.