FTL Captain's Edition 1.308/Inf 1.301b/EL 1.308

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stylesrj
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:21 am

Estel wrote:Excuse me, but if you're using tricks like that, no wonder that you lose so often. The amount of jumps (and fuel) you waste this way is ridiculous. Don't get it wrong way, but it's beginner strategy, not to say beginners mistake. CE is, indeed, rather meant for more veteran players (albeit on easy, it is still quite easy... in FTL terms).


Plus it doesn't actually help if the boarders are from an event, not a Lanius boarding party as teleported in by one of their ships.

reaver wrote:I just tried playing CE with the easiest ship I know: the Mantis B - Basilisk. Strangely, I was suddenly getting fuel every fight pretty much, even after loading up on the stuff from a store right next to the start beacon. I got above 30 fuel at some point in sector 1. -Things about Mantis and Piracy-


Try the Shrike. Mind Control, two Flak guns (sure the cooldown sucks, but it's 4 shots every 14 seconds) and a Teleporter. Plus two Lanius boarders and an AI. Switch Oxygen off and have fun while the enemies suffer(cate) and die.

Also, Mantises are honourable beings and don't like breaking truces. Don't ask why. Otherwise Mantis ships would be so OP as nothing would be outside of their grubby big claws.

I just remembered another scenario--now this might be a bug and it might have been with Advanced Edition--one of my crew was affected by a disease, became an enemy and had to be put down, and I couldn't clone them with the clone bay. It didn't specifically say that I couldn't, it simply never even gave the option. It wasn't fair because I decided it was safe to send my crew into a dangerous situation on the basis that I had a clone bay.


Yup, I had that problem too. I once was in a Quarantine Sector with a Level 3 Clone Bay. I foolishly answered a distress signal and while I gained two Humans, I had a metric butt-ton of boarders and I lost a Lanius (it turned to an enemy) without so much as a warning.

Frustrated, I vowed to never enter Quarantine Zones without a medbay. And even when I encountered those signals that requested I transport people from one place to another, there was no option to use my Level 3 medbay to scan the people. Only "Sure" and "No way."

And if I hit "Sure" chances are I'd get a metric butt-ton of boarders.

Clone Bays are still way better though, but the whole idea that they save DNA in real-time is annoying. "The disease will pass on to the next life." Yeah thanks, but why didn't we save a copy before we boarded that creepy space station?
I can understand with the Quarantine Zone. You probably picked it up on that world you were in orbit over (space disease! Wooooo! It's coming through the hull!) but otherwise... it's a cheap cop-out.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Estel » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:49 am

stylesrj wrote:Yeah thanks, but why didn't we save a copy before we boarded that creepy space station?


Because for that, there is "backup DNA bank" augment, sold separately (batteries not included) :D
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:03 am

Estel wrote:Because for that, there is "backup DNA bank" augment, sold separately (batteries not included) :D


Except it doesn't do that for things like, boarding creepy space stations or quarantine zones (but I hope it does next CE update!)

It still wouldn't save you from cloning regulations though about leaving someone behind on a sick planet (or perhaps that rarely-seen augment with the cloning tanks might do something about it... if that augment is still buyable)
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby thereaverofdarkness » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:24 am

Estel wrote:
thereaverofdarkness wrote: Selling cargo for +10-15 scrap over what I bought it for is often not even worth the augmentation slot it takes up, and it certainly isn't worth it if I only make the profit by advancing the rebels. Then I have to spend 2 extra fuel every sector just to avoid advancing the rebels double speed for two turns.


This alone indicated that you have no idea how trading system works. The amount of scrap one can gain from it is closer to hundred bonus scrap, than 15 one. IF used properly.

thereaverofdarkness wrote:1.) there's significantly less fuel, even though you use significantly more of it


...and there is ton of it in shops. C'mon, in vanilla FTL, fuel was non-existing problem. I like never bought it, on Hard.


thereaverofdarkness wrote:I'll grant that the Mantis C is just straight up a bad ship.

|
It is one of most powerful ships in game, as every boarding one ;)

thereaverofdarkness wrote:I haven't had much trouble fighting Lanius boarders. The trick is to be ready to jump out of combat to go heal up before you go back in with them. There are other tricks, too,.



Excuse me, but if you're using tricks like that, no wonder that you lose so often. The amount of jumps (and fuel) you waste this way is ridiculous. Don't get it wrong way, but it's beginner strategy, not to say beginners mistake. CE is, indeed, rather meant for more veteran players (albeit on easy, it is still quite easy... in FTL terms).

/Estel


It may yield as much as a hundred at times, but a lot of times it doesn't yield that, and also the easiest way to obtain these goods is to buy them before shopping at a store, so you have to advance the rebels twice to buy and sell them if you don't have a cargo teleporter or access to theirs. "Used properly" I guess means "at the mercy of the RNG, hoping you get a good cargo that just happens to fetch the best price in a sector you'll actually go to" then again, I'm only assuming their price varies in different sectors. Maybe because I'm hoping the prices I've gotten were abnormally low, and that these space hogs aren't actually that cheap.

There is NOT a ton of fuel in shops. Most shops sell around 3-7 fuel, and when you're not getting hardly any from any other source, that's simply not enough. Sure, I usually didn't have fuel problems before CE, but I did buy it in stores every now and then. But most of it came from combat.

The Mantis C is powerful late game because it has a 2x2 crew teleporter, but it has an abysmally weak setup to begin with. It's impossible to make it do well, and tricky to even make it scrape by until you get a larger boarding party. A mantis and a Lanius just don't mesh well together, and while the bombs help cover for them, you have to wait for the bombs to slowly charge up before you dive in and the ship doesn't really have much in the way of defenses while it's waiting.

You don't need to make personal attacks, calling me a noob just so you can boast about how good you are at a game that rules by the RNG. I've played the game a lot and watched enough others play it to know I'm pretty good at it, and furthermore I'm not the only one who gets creamed by the RNG all the time. I'm probably just one of the few who can say for certain it is the RNG's fault almost every time I lose a game, because I very rarely make any mistakes of my own, and I tend to catch the ones I do make. Plus, a strategy that works, no matter how elementary, is not a "beginner strategy", and doing something the right way is not going to indicate why I lost a game. That's just a personal attack and it's just you gloating over the experience you think you have. I'd like to see videos of you doing so well before I'm ready to believe your skill is even close to mine in FTL. I'm not bragging, I'm saying I don't believe for a second you're as good as you make yourself out to be.

I entered a sector on one playthrough in which the background was filled with some kind of white cloud-like stuff and all of my systems and subsystems were ionized by 1 point. This utterly crippled my ship because of how many systems I had that weren't able to operate with one less bar. Doors were out, crew teleporter was out, I couldn't online the pair of weapons that together were my only chance of getting past 2 shield bubbles, and my ship was down to 1 shield bubble. Navigation was down so all my evasion was worthless. Also, when I first entered, there was a text event describing something about some negative effects and it gave me the chance to fight a ship or hide deeper in the bad cloud, but it made it sound as though the cloud was going to directly damage my ship and it said that the other ship was weakened by the cloud. Funny, because when I chose to fight the ship, it had 3 shield bubbles (at the beginning of sector 6) and probably at least 10 total power between weapons and drones. It nearly shredded my ship before I was able to jump out, and then the next two beacons I land in have the same hazard cloud with another similarly strong opponent, giving me no option to avoid combat with them. I got destroyed on the third ship. It was literally impossible for me to escape, except perhaps by possessing some knowledge that I had no way of obtaining.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:38 am

Ooooh! You landed in the AI sector!
Oh man that place is DEADLY! More troll moves pulled on you than the Abandoned Sector and its Lanius boarders.

Next time, avoid the nebula clouds or minimise contact with them as much as possible (sometimes you find more nebula beacons than a nebula sector). You do not want to go in there; the first cloud should have told you what to expect and therefore what to avoid from then on in.

But what's FTL without some hard-earned lessons? After all, my first ion storm almost killed me. "Hey where did my oxygen go? Why are my guns not powered up? Where are my shields? Why does that guy have a missile launcher, two shield layers and a burst laser II charging up?"

After all, I had no prior knowledge that nebula clouds would have Ion Storms. And now I avoid them and miss out on some great nebula opportunities (although I don't think nanobot clouds have anything good from them unlike some storms which give you Scrap and possibly kill your crew)
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby thereaverofdarkness » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:02 am

There weren't any beacons that weren't in the clouds. I had to go through them to get to the exit beacon. There was no way for me to know that the entire sector was a death trap before I went in. Ion storms can be nasty but since the AI actually takes a hit for it also, it's uncommon that they wind up with a setup that'll do well for them in it anyway. Almost every time I find they either have shields partway down or don't have all their weapons up. They neve ruse backup batteries, either. If I have a backup battery and know where the hazards are, I may choose to go into plasma storms on purpose because I have an advantage in there. But the ships in the white nebula were at least two sectors stronger than the enemies I fought before them. They were like sector 7 opponents, actually half the opponents in sector 7 are weaker than those. They certainly weren't weakened by the cloud like I was. Also, after I had found out about the weaknesses I had in the cloud, there was no way to fix the problem with scrap because I was on hazard beacons--I think I wouldn't have been able to upgrade any of my systems. But every beacon landed me in a fight I couldn't win anyway, so I definitely had no way to upgrade.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Sleeper Service » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:18 am

thereaverofdarkness wrote:There was no way for me to know that the entire sector was a death trap before I went in.
Well now you know it. Better stay away from those nano clouds the next time, or get through them as fast as possible.

stylesrj wrote:Also, there are more opportunities to lose it. Like those BS black holes that pop out of friggin' nowhere and take away two units of fuel and ruin any "Needle threading" you were planning on.
Except they don't pop out of friggin' nowhere. They can only appear in two sector types and the decision to "needle thread" there was yours to make. Have you taken the possibility of black-holes appearing there into account? If not that was foolish. If yes than you took a risk and that might or might not have worked out.

thereaverofdarkness wrote: I've played the game a lot and watched enough others play it to know I'm pretty good at it, and furthermore I'm not the only one who gets creamed by the RNG all the time. I'm probably just one of the few who can say for certain it is the RNG's fault almost every time I lose a game, because I very rarely make any mistakes of my own, and I tend to catch the ones I do make.
However there are people that can consistently beat CE. If RNG would be the determining factor then this would not be possible. Chances are that you could still improve your game. Ultimately your vanilla FTL skills are to some extend irrelevant. Knowing how vanilla works helps, but CE is still different and your success depends on your ability to adapt to new things. Being good at vanilla FTL does not entitle you to be good in CE automatically. One day you might ride into those AI nano bot clouds with a fully geared up light laser barge and laugh at your past failures. :) Or not, however you choose. But as mentioned, there are people that enjoy the challenge the mod provides. The question is whether you think the mod should specifically adjust to you. If it did, I might have people complain in exactly the same manner because it is "too easy". Ultimately I made the mod as it is because I think adding more challenge is more interesting.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Biohazard063 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:33 pm

Sleeper Service wrote:However there are people that can consistently beat CE. If RNG would be the determining factor then this would not be possible. Chances are that you could still improve your game. Ultimately your vanilla FTL skills are to some extend irrelevant. Knowing how vanilla works helps, but CE is still different and your success depends on your ability to adapt to new things. Being good at vanilla FTL does not entitle you to be good in CE automatically. One day you might ride into those AI nano bot clouds with a fully geared up light laser barge and laugh at your past failures. :) Or not, however you choose. But as mentioned, there are people that enjoy the challenge the mod provides. The question is whether you think the mod should specifically adjust to you. If it did, I might have people complain in exactly the same manner because it is "too easy". Ultimately I made the mod as it is because I think adding more challenge is more interesting.


As long as we get to rant at ourselves when we get screwed, it's alright with me. ;)
One thing needs to be said though, you'll never feel as safe in CE as you could in AE.
There will always be a few things that can really mess your run up. (Does make me wonder, do black holes appear as a hazard with long ranged scanners?)
Which is great ! Makes victory all the more sweeter.

Seen a lot of things come and go in this mod... good thing the bounty hunter is still a class A **** right ? :lol:
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby thereaverofdarkness » Wed Aug 05, 2015 4:37 pm

It's much less challenge and much more rote memorization. Knowing what to expect gives a player a huge advantage, so much in fact that it allows them to simply avoid choices that are otherwise purely a death trap. They can also gauge their specific situation and determine how much of a death trap it really is. Sure, had I known the AI nanobot sector would do specifically what it did, I would have chosen the other sector, or at least upgraded my crew teleporter. That's not skill, that's memorization.

I don't expect to go into CE being an expert. One of the things I was counting on was to see new events that weren't built in the style of the original--new events that actually had reasonable and intuitive choices and consequences. But what I found was more of the same, where I'm basically counting on the RNG and knowing all of the specifics, and any actual gameplay that's skill-related is basically the same as before. I haven't learned any new skills in CE nor have I needed any. The only thing that will make me a "better" player from this point on is learning events so I know when to choose or avoid them.

That's not a challenge.

P.S. There's nobody who can consistently beat FTL. If you get a string of victories, there's a good chunk of luck involved, no matter how well you play.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Sleeper Service » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:19 pm

thereaverofdarkness wrote:It's much less challenge and much more rote memorization. Knowing what to expect gives a player a huge advantage, so much in fact that it allows them to simply avoid choices that are otherwise purely a death trap. They can also gauge their specific situation and determine how much of a death trap it really is.
Yep, thats pretty much how FTL works. Learning what is what, learning what weapons do what, learning what events can result in. Then again nano clouds aren't purely a dathtrap, they are an environment you can adopt to. Estel seems to like them as his personal AI hunting ground. :D But pointing out that they are purely negative might be justified. I have to think about this. But in generally how you define what the game asks of your is irrelevant. I mean I could argue that the ability to adopt to rapidly or slowly changing circumstance is a skill that is required for CE. But in either case, yeah, memorizing stuff is part of this mod, just like it is part of vanilla FTL. Ultimately this seemed to have worked out pretty well for vanilla FTL and it seemed to have worked alright for the mod as well.

thereaverofdarkness wrote:P.S. There's nobody who can consistently beat FTL. If you get a string of victories, there's a good chunk of luck involved, no matter how well you play.
Twinge and a few others have 28+ winstreaks on hard with changing ships. This proves that enough experience/skill/memorization or however you want to define it will overcome any situation. Luck ultimately isn't relevant in FTL, like Twinge put it "the game just has a deceptively hight skill ceiling".

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