FTL Captain's Edition 1.308/Inf 1.301b/EL 1.308

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Krazyguy75
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Krazyguy75 » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:10 pm

I feel like their should be just lanius sectors, no homeworld, and an event similar to the crystal event that takes you to the lanius homeworld via special warp. Alternatively, have the lanius homeworld very rarely show up in infinite space.
thereaverofdarkness
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby thereaverofdarkness » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:32 pm

Artamba wrote:Also, TheReaverofDarkness, it's easy to blame the game for bad decisions you didn't even understand you took. It's also easily possible that you got damn unlucky not getting any fuel from encounters, but there's so many options to avoid fights and get resources in CE that I think it might just be that you're not used to it all! Especially since you lowered yourself to easy mode! :P


I got used to it all pretty quickly. It's all intuitive, I can see exactly how it works. Simple fact of the matter: I got far less fuel in addition to the rebels advancing more quickly. There's way more events that advance the rebels than before, a lot of them supposedly option and yes, I can turn them down which I pretty much always do because their benefits are really minor and not worth the extra time. They would be barely advantageous even if they didn't advance the rebels. Selling cargo for +10-15 scrap over what I bought it for is often not even worth the augmentation slot it takes up, and it certainly isn't worth it if I only make the profit by advancing the rebels. Then I have to spend 2 extra fuel every sector just to avoid advancing the rebels double speed for two turns.

I know how to avoid fights, and there were lots of ways to do that in stock FTL. As a matter of fact I was avoiding fights on the run I mentioned. I was thinking about it afterward and I figured perhaps the reason I wasn't finding fuel was due to an oversight: adding all the content about surrendering or accepting surrender and fuel was never added to the enemies' surrender offers but you have to give fuel to surrender to them. So I tried a new run, this time with a Mantis ship. I know that in the original game you get the most fuel by taking ships via boarding parties. Well that didn't fix the problem. I ignored pleas to surrender (unless they offered fuel, which they almost never did) and I still got almost no fuel. I rejected chances to advance the rebels except I did spend the 2 fuel at each sector start, and the rebels still advanced a lot faster than they ever did in stock FTL, and that extra fuel use caused me to be barely scraping enough fuel to get by even though I was buying all of it from every store I visited. I only did slightly better with fuel that run.

After having played a few more times, I see more discrepancies with CE:
1.) there's significantly less fuel, even though you use significantly more of it
2.) overpowered enemies are more common
3.) you wind up with less scrap, not because you get less, but because you spend more of it on repairs and fuel due to so often losing 3/4ths of your hull to one overpowered enemy you had no possible way of defending yourself against
4.) you can't properly take advantage of the features because you never have enough scrap to buy the cool weapons/drones let alone upgrade your systems to use them, and the features you can afford to access will advance the rebels for way too little benefit to make it worthwhile.

The only way I can see people being okay with this is if you all are masochists and like to be tormented. Well I'm different, I actually like games where my choices are the most important part. I like a game in which victory is only a matter of skill, not random chance in which the odds are stacked against me. You know, on one run I died on the second jump, to an enemy that tore apart my hull to zero before my engines charged to flee. It had 1 shield bubble, a 3-flak weapon, and a minelayer drone. The amount of power bars it had to have been spending on that weaponry is absurd for so early, and its damage output was utterly insane. There was no way for me to thwart the minelayer drone given my ship had no way to turn off any of its weapons/drones and my evasion was too low for them to ever miss. The flak went right through my 1 shield bubble, and my ship which was designed for boarding parties (Mantis C) was utterly incapable of getting past their crew AND antipersonnel drone. Yeah, they had an antipersonnel drone AND a minelayer drone, both up at once.

I'll grant that the Mantis C is just straight up a bad ship, but there's no excuse for an enemy that can literally tear a ship to shreds before it has a chance to charge engines and escape--on the second jump. Now I've lost the first fight of a run multiple times before CE, but it was always to a ship getting lucky and shooting out the engines, weapons, shields, weak spots. That didn't happen this time. Its aim was lousy and I had the shields and engines up almost the whole fight. My hull just went down too fast.
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stylesrj
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:58 pm

I once fought a ship in Sector 1 (CE Infinite but I hadn't even reached the first exit beacon) which hacked my Level 1 Shields down to Level 0. It had both an ion gun and a very fast-firing focus beam. All I had to fight back with were two Combat Drones (I was flying my Scrin Ship so all it had were the two drones). And the RNG had a fixation on my Drone Control and Hull Breaches.

Normally this would have been grounds to give up and run or restart and try again but I pulled through with half my hull remaining.

But yeah I do agree that fuel is much harder to acquire in CE. If I encounter a Mantis ship, either pirate or actual Mantis, I think to myself that I'm not getting any fuel from it.
Also, there are more opportunities to lose it. Like those BS black holes that pop out of friggin' nowhere and take away two units of fuel and ruin any "Needle threading" you were planning on.

Also, I don't think Lanius should be part of those teleporting crews that enter your ship. Every time I get boarders, chances are one of them will be a Lanius. I don't mind AI boarders as they only have 50HP and can be taken down easily enough but Lanius... they'll suck the life out of your crew and if you have two onboard your ship, might as well say goodbye to your crew. And your Clone Bay.

I know it's supposed to mean that you actually have to get in there and fight the enemy rather than suffocate them to death but well... I guess I need to stop using the Airlock Treatment Strategy on every boarding party.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby thereaverofdarkness » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:39 am

I haven't had much trouble fighting Lanius boarders. The trick is to be ready to jump out of combat to go heal up before you go back in with them. There are other tricks, too, depending on the situation. You can open a door they're trying to get through in order to put them in a fresh room full of air right before you fight them. You can delay any boarding party with a nearby engi in order to buy time for your security team to arrive and prevent a vital system from going down. I only have difficulty with boarders when I have to deal with them while taking heavy fire from a ship, or when the RNG sends way too many for how early I am in the game. I once was boarded by four mantis in sector one, and of course it happened while I was playing a zoltan ship. But I also noticed that weirdly unfair events like that seemed to stop happening after I upgraded to Advanced Edition. I stopped seeing the opponents with 10 power in shields or 11 in weapons, also.

Supposedly the game is supposed to be about skill, but I never felt that way in the original game. The skills were important but easy to learn and master, while the RNG remained potent no matter how good I got. I reached the point where I could beat the flagship on 80% of games on easy, but on 20% or so, something ridiculous happens and I have literally no chance of getting past. It's always those really terrible fights that I don't get a chance to avoid, too. I think I recall once getting the chance to avoid a fight I couldn't afford to take on, while it's every other game pretty much where I'm forced into a fight that I have almost no chance of winning. Advanced Edition really changed it to make the game a lot more skill-based, which is very reasonable considering they released hard difficulty. I still play on easy pretty much every game because every time I go on normal, most of it will be just as easy as easy, only difference is while I'm not using any more skill, I'm way more likely to get trashed by the RNG.

I just tried playing CE with the easiest ship I know: the Mantis B - Basilisk. Strangely, I was suddenly getting fuel every fight pretty much, even after loading up on the stuff from a store right next to the start beacon. I got above 30 fuel at some point in sector 1. I quit after an event reminded me of one of the biggest reasons I hated FTL: I opted to let a ship surrender, then destroy it anyway. One of my crew left, saying it was the last straw, as if I'd done this sort of thing before. It was one of my mantis, too. It's those random events where the outcome is completely unintuitive and dependent on an extremely simple random outcome generation, typically with exactly two or three options, each of which has an identical chance of happening and often none of them make much sense with the rest of the game. So instead of thinking strategically, the way you get past those events is by rote memorization--learning what possible outcomes there are and selecting the set that is most preferable. I'd read about the new piracy feature and how it affects crew morale, well apparently that system wasn't really designed to maintain individual crew morale so much as just select crew at random to disappear. Also, it makes no sense as in real life I could simply check with my crew before doing it to see if they're okay with it, and opt not to do it if they aren't. Often the choices in FTL require you to gamble on information you lack that you should have access to.

I just remembered another scenario--now this might be a bug and it might have been with Advanced Edition--one of my crew was affected by a disease, became an enemy and had to be put down, and I couldn't clone them with the clone bay. It didn't specifically say that I couldn't, it simply never even gave the option. It wasn't fair because I decided it was safe to send my crew into a dangerous situation on the basis that I had a clone bay.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Estel » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:46 am

thereaverofdarkness wrote: Selling cargo for +10-15 scrap over what I bought it for is often not even worth the augmentation slot it takes up, and it certainly isn't worth it if I only make the profit by advancing the rebels. Then I have to spend 2 extra fuel every sector just to avoid advancing the rebels double speed for two turns.


This alone indicated that you have no idea how trading system works. The amount of scrap one can gain from it is closer to hundred bonus scrap, than 15 one. IF used properly.

thereaverofdarkness wrote:1.) there's significantly less fuel, even though you use significantly more of it


...and there is ton of it in shops. C'mon, in vanilla FTL, fuel was non-existing problem. I like never bought it, on Hard.


thereaverofdarkness wrote:I'll grant that the Mantis C is just straight up a bad ship.

|
It is one of most powerful ships in game, as every boarding one ;)

thereaverofdarkness wrote:I haven't had much trouble fighting Lanius boarders. The trick is to be ready to jump out of combat to go heal up before you go back in with them. There are other tricks, too,.



Excuse me, but if you're using tricks like that, no wonder that you lose so often. The amount of jumps (and fuel) you waste this way is ridiculous. Don't get it wrong way, but it's beginner strategy, not to say beginners mistake. CE is, indeed, rather meant for more veteran players (albeit on easy, it is still quite easy... in FTL terms).

/Estel
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:21 am

Estel wrote:Excuse me, but if you're using tricks like that, no wonder that you lose so often. The amount of jumps (and fuel) you waste this way is ridiculous. Don't get it wrong way, but it's beginner strategy, not to say beginners mistake. CE is, indeed, rather meant for more veteran players (albeit on easy, it is still quite easy... in FTL terms).


Plus it doesn't actually help if the boarders are from an event, not a Lanius boarding party as teleported in by one of their ships.

reaver wrote:I just tried playing CE with the easiest ship I know: the Mantis B - Basilisk. Strangely, I was suddenly getting fuel every fight pretty much, even after loading up on the stuff from a store right next to the start beacon. I got above 30 fuel at some point in sector 1. -Things about Mantis and Piracy-


Try the Shrike. Mind Control, two Flak guns (sure the cooldown sucks, but it's 4 shots every 14 seconds) and a Teleporter. Plus two Lanius boarders and an AI. Switch Oxygen off and have fun while the enemies suffer(cate) and die.

Also, Mantises are honourable beings and don't like breaking truces. Don't ask why. Otherwise Mantis ships would be so OP as nothing would be outside of their grubby big claws.

I just remembered another scenario--now this might be a bug and it might have been with Advanced Edition--one of my crew was affected by a disease, became an enemy and had to be put down, and I couldn't clone them with the clone bay. It didn't specifically say that I couldn't, it simply never even gave the option. It wasn't fair because I decided it was safe to send my crew into a dangerous situation on the basis that I had a clone bay.


Yup, I had that problem too. I once was in a Quarantine Sector with a Level 3 Clone Bay. I foolishly answered a distress signal and while I gained two Humans, I had a metric butt-ton of boarders and I lost a Lanius (it turned to an enemy) without so much as a warning.

Frustrated, I vowed to never enter Quarantine Zones without a medbay. And even when I encountered those signals that requested I transport people from one place to another, there was no option to use my Level 3 medbay to scan the people. Only "Sure" and "No way."

And if I hit "Sure" chances are I'd get a metric butt-ton of boarders.

Clone Bays are still way better though, but the whole idea that they save DNA in real-time is annoying. "The disease will pass on to the next life." Yeah thanks, but why didn't we save a copy before we boarded that creepy space station?
I can understand with the Quarantine Zone. You probably picked it up on that world you were in orbit over (space disease! Wooooo! It's coming through the hull!) but otherwise... it's a cheap cop-out.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Estel » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:49 am

stylesrj wrote:Yeah thanks, but why didn't we save a copy before we boarded that creepy space station?


Because for that, there is "backup DNA bank" augment, sold separately (batteries not included) :D
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:03 am

Estel wrote:Because for that, there is "backup DNA bank" augment, sold separately (batteries not included) :D


Except it doesn't do that for things like, boarding creepy space stations or quarantine zones (but I hope it does next CE update!)

It still wouldn't save you from cloning regulations though about leaving someone behind on a sick planet (or perhaps that rarely-seen augment with the cloning tanks might do something about it... if that augment is still buyable)
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby thereaverofdarkness » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:24 am

Estel wrote:
thereaverofdarkness wrote: Selling cargo for +10-15 scrap over what I bought it for is often not even worth the augmentation slot it takes up, and it certainly isn't worth it if I only make the profit by advancing the rebels. Then I have to spend 2 extra fuel every sector just to avoid advancing the rebels double speed for two turns.


This alone indicated that you have no idea how trading system works. The amount of scrap one can gain from it is closer to hundred bonus scrap, than 15 one. IF used properly.

thereaverofdarkness wrote:1.) there's significantly less fuel, even though you use significantly more of it


...and there is ton of it in shops. C'mon, in vanilla FTL, fuel was non-existing problem. I like never bought it, on Hard.


thereaverofdarkness wrote:I'll grant that the Mantis C is just straight up a bad ship.

|
It is one of most powerful ships in game, as every boarding one ;)

thereaverofdarkness wrote:I haven't had much trouble fighting Lanius boarders. The trick is to be ready to jump out of combat to go heal up before you go back in with them. There are other tricks, too,.



Excuse me, but if you're using tricks like that, no wonder that you lose so often. The amount of jumps (and fuel) you waste this way is ridiculous. Don't get it wrong way, but it's beginner strategy, not to say beginners mistake. CE is, indeed, rather meant for more veteran players (albeit on easy, it is still quite easy... in FTL terms).

/Estel


It may yield as much as a hundred at times, but a lot of times it doesn't yield that, and also the easiest way to obtain these goods is to buy them before shopping at a store, so you have to advance the rebels twice to buy and sell them if you don't have a cargo teleporter or access to theirs. "Used properly" I guess means "at the mercy of the RNG, hoping you get a good cargo that just happens to fetch the best price in a sector you'll actually go to" then again, I'm only assuming their price varies in different sectors. Maybe because I'm hoping the prices I've gotten were abnormally low, and that these space hogs aren't actually that cheap.

There is NOT a ton of fuel in shops. Most shops sell around 3-7 fuel, and when you're not getting hardly any from any other source, that's simply not enough. Sure, I usually didn't have fuel problems before CE, but I did buy it in stores every now and then. But most of it came from combat.

The Mantis C is powerful late game because it has a 2x2 crew teleporter, but it has an abysmally weak setup to begin with. It's impossible to make it do well, and tricky to even make it scrape by until you get a larger boarding party. A mantis and a Lanius just don't mesh well together, and while the bombs help cover for them, you have to wait for the bombs to slowly charge up before you dive in and the ship doesn't really have much in the way of defenses while it's waiting.

You don't need to make personal attacks, calling me a noob just so you can boast about how good you are at a game that rules by the RNG. I've played the game a lot and watched enough others play it to know I'm pretty good at it, and furthermore I'm not the only one who gets creamed by the RNG all the time. I'm probably just one of the few who can say for certain it is the RNG's fault almost every time I lose a game, because I very rarely make any mistakes of my own, and I tend to catch the ones I do make. Plus, a strategy that works, no matter how elementary, is not a "beginner strategy", and doing something the right way is not going to indicate why I lost a game. That's just a personal attack and it's just you gloating over the experience you think you have. I'd like to see videos of you doing so well before I'm ready to believe your skill is even close to mine in FTL. I'm not bragging, I'm saying I don't believe for a second you're as good as you make yourself out to be.

I entered a sector on one playthrough in which the background was filled with some kind of white cloud-like stuff and all of my systems and subsystems were ionized by 1 point. This utterly crippled my ship because of how many systems I had that weren't able to operate with one less bar. Doors were out, crew teleporter was out, I couldn't online the pair of weapons that together were my only chance of getting past 2 shield bubbles, and my ship was down to 1 shield bubble. Navigation was down so all my evasion was worthless. Also, when I first entered, there was a text event describing something about some negative effects and it gave me the chance to fight a ship or hide deeper in the bad cloud, but it made it sound as though the cloud was going to directly damage my ship and it said that the other ship was weakened by the cloud. Funny, because when I chose to fight the ship, it had 3 shield bubbles (at the beginning of sector 6) and probably at least 10 total power between weapons and drones. It nearly shredded my ship before I was able to jump out, and then the next two beacons I land in have the same hazard cloud with another similarly strong opponent, giving me no option to avoid combat with them. I got destroyed on the third ship. It was literally impossible for me to escape, except perhaps by possessing some knowledge that I had no way of obtaining.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:38 am

Ooooh! You landed in the AI sector!
Oh man that place is DEADLY! More troll moves pulled on you than the Abandoned Sector and its Lanius boarders.

Next time, avoid the nebula clouds or minimise contact with them as much as possible (sometimes you find more nebula beacons than a nebula sector). You do not want to go in there; the first cloud should have told you what to expect and therefore what to avoid from then on in.

But what's FTL without some hard-earned lessons? After all, my first ion storm almost killed me. "Hey where did my oxygen go? Why are my guns not powered up? Where are my shields? Why does that guy have a missile launcher, two shield layers and a burst laser II charging up?"

After all, I had no prior knowledge that nebula clouds would have Ion Storms. And now I avoid them and miss out on some great nebula opportunities (although I don't think nanobot clouds have anything good from them unlike some storms which give you Scrap and possibly kill your crew)

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