FTL Captain's Edition 1.308/Inf 1.301b/EL 1.308

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stylesrj
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:23 pm

Sleeper Service wrote:Right, I think your main problem here is that you ran out of fuel in the first place. The most straight forward way to avoid that painful death is to not run out of fuel in CE. Your naming suggestions as well as the Slug attack option have been implemented, to cheer you up the next time. ;)


Thanks. Can there be an option for advanced engines or something (or a Teleport Disruptor) to deliver payback if you were silly enough to accept the Slug's offer?

(Teleport Disruptor) Something doesn't feel right about this Slug's deal.
Your instincts are right. The Slug attempted to steal from your cargo hold with micro-teleporters.
Fight the Slug ship with a Slug intruder.

(Advanced Engines) After them!
You squeeze enough energy from your engines to catch up to the Slugs and take several shots at them. Your opening barrage slows them down but they'll get away if you don't finish the job!
Fight the Slug ship. (With slightly damaged engines and they charge FTL)

----------------

And yeah I know I'm not supposed to run out of fuel, but the RNG can be against you severely in Infinite. Especially with all the boarding parties.
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Estel
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Estel » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:40 am

Sleeper Service wrote:On a slightly different note: I considered whether Zoltans might offer to sacrifice themselves by being turned into fuel when you run out. :shock:


That could be interesting, especially considering the "social" outcome of conversing with Zoltans, that can, already, give some fuel, at the price of shortening Zoltan's lifespan by few decades. Albeit I think that 10-20 fuel is too high - 8-12 sounds more balanced (12 fuel is 36 scrap, Zoltan cost 50-60 scrap - we should be "losing scrap" considering that it is "easy" way of running from situation where we just screw things up and ended without fuel).

Albeit, with all this "use rocks to plumb breaches in hull and Engis as a plating" we're entering a grotesque side of the Force, a little. The Zoltan thing seems to work in-lore, the engi might too, but - considering nano-bomb repairs 1 hull - I don't see engi repairing more than 1-2 hull (with his low mass of nanobots), which would be useless thing, anyway.

Biohazard063 wrote:For me it seems more obvious that a few drones would have an easier time distracting an enemy ship rather than an entire fleet.
I guess we all have our different views about this sort of stuff...


Simple answer - balance reasons, It would just be too OP to have possibility to run from rebel fleet/any ship at the cost of few drone parts, as additional benefit of (already quite powerful) drone control. Heck, it could even be abused to "squeeze" one or more beacons from every sector, just by meeting rebel fleet at exit, and running, for low cost. CE's rebel fleet, finally, achieved such menacing firepower, that I stopped to "farm" their cruisers in sector 1-5 (on Hard), deciding that it is not worth the risk - aka, balance of the threat finally achieved sane value, in-lore. Having easy escape would sure destroy this feeling of dread, again.
---

On a side note - I'm all against "easy ways" to run from situations, where we screw up (out of fuel), like ones proposed in last post. If existing at all, it should be costly and punishing. CE, finally, taught us to care about fuel (like, at all - before hyperspace, i almost NEVER bought any fuel in store), let's not destroy it.
---

As for Hyperspace Admirals, I also haven't ignore the sign about it - albeit, I must admit, that I got it earlier, due to being Patreon supporter. I'm really excited about it, and keeping my thumbs for you, guys! Actually, I'm wondering how you could make world more aware about the awesome project, without "Early access" or other nonsense. Considering the quality of CE (and the awesomely useful random weapons, starting ships, and flagship), I guess it's going to be a real blast, world deserve to know :) !

On the other hand, I'm sad that I don't have any qualities that would allow me to submit application to the team ;) Well, will be happy to bugtest during beta, anyway!

/Estel
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:49 am

Estel wrote:On a side note - I'm all against "easy ways" to run from situations, where we screw up (out of fuel), like ones proposed in last post. If existing at all, it should be costly and punishing. CE, finally, taught us to care about fuel (like, at all - before hyperspace, i almost NEVER bought any fuel in store), let's not destroy it.


After running out of fuel a lot in Vanilla FTL, I learned quickly to buy all the fuel I could in stores, all the way until Sector 7 where I had 20-30 units spare.

The only time I run out of fuel in-game is when events conspire not to give me any (like automated ships while I have only a boarding crew, Mantis ships, boarding events). And in CE Infinite, you will encounter droughts of fuel that will not be entirely your fault.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby R4V3-0N » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:42 am

Didn't make much bug reports for CE but I noticed under the blue option at an empty beacon for the zoltan cruiser (I specificlly used the type B but I assume all 3 types work here..) that it says " 1. (Zoltan ship) Upgrade you teleporter devices..." ... I think it meant your....
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Biohazard063 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:10 am

Sleeper Service wrote:
Biohazard063 wrote:Right but I'm pretty sure the player will wonder why he can't do this in any fight then. Why couldn't he? I'm not arguing so much on a lore basis here anyway. The delay option exists because I wanted to provide a not-so-straight-forward way for the player to turn drone parts into resources (time). Because that was an often requested features and I found the delay scenario was an interesting way to put that in. (Mine layers create a similar options for missiles.) However I'm not sure why merely having combat drones equipped should enable the player to trade drone parts for easy escapes. It could be interesting, but I'm not sure why drones need that additional perk. The delay scenario on the other hand answered a clear design problem: players often said they want to be able to turn their consumables into resources, but had few ways to actually do that. CE introduced ways, with downsides however to keep things tight.


The main issue with the current trade off time vs. drone parts, is when you get the option to do it ,it means you already have a combat drone equipped. Since you need it equipped in order for the option to pop-up. That means you probably want to use your drone parts for what they were initially intended : In combat.
So one extra jump when you're not in danger will usually not be as beneficial. On the other hand, if you're caught by the rebel fleet and manage to win the fight, being able to delay them then, could mean the difference between escaping to another beacon that has been overtaken or "safety". A choice most people will be glad to sacrifice 3 drone parts over. In the end, you're still only using them to delay the rebel fleet. You're just in the thick of it whilst doing it. Should lore be of importance, you can always go with :
"You upload your jump signature to your drones and send them out in different directions, that should keep the fleet busy whilst you get out of here."
The whole distracting a single ship just popped in my mind because of that one event where you can actually do that.
I believe (because I looked it up...) it's called "AUTO_DEFENSE_RADAR".
We can leave that out.

Going back to trading drone parts for running :
Drone parts are still quite valuable. And giving up three can be costly. Unlike mine launchers, they also don't require the investment of getting drone control.
Sure this doesn't mean anything if you start of with drone controll, but then again, every ship starts with weapons (usually...). And depending on the amount of weapon slots you have, you can just keep it in a weapons slot and never use it in combat.
And face it, most people when they get drone control, it's not for offensive purposes unless they are forced to take that route.
Again, the whole re-roll the fight only popped in because I got that event. The main idea I wanted to pitch was being able to delay the fleet after winning a fight against it.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby moop » Thu Jul 30, 2015 6:55 pm

Sleeper Service wrote:Odd, this should work. Maybe try redownloading and reinstalling infinite.


Afraid not :( I even tried a different load order, which, oddly, everything still worked fine except for Infinite.

I guess it's back to an older version of CE for my Infinite good times.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Sleeper Service » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:30 pm

Ok so there is still the option to make a clean install of both FTL and the mod manager and then reinstall the mods. Again, technically the mod is in order. This should work. :|

Biohazard063 wrote:Drone parts are still quite valuable. And giving up three can be costly. Unlike mine launchers, they also don't require the investment of getting drone control.
Sure this doesn't mean anything if you start of with drone controll, but then again, every ship starts with weapons (usually...). And depending on the amount of weapon slots you have, you can just keep it in a weapons slot and never use it in combat.
And face it, most people when they get drone control, it's not for offensive purposes unless they are forced to take that route.
Again, the whole re-roll the fight only popped in because I got that event. The main idea I wanted to pitch was being able to delay the fleet after winning a fight against it.

To begin with the drone option was never meant to be very cost efficient. Again, I still don't see why drone systems would need this additional perk and why the player should be able to escape that easily when having combat drones equipped. Free escape is different from gaining a jump on empty beacons. I'm generally opposed to partly enabling empty beacon options after fights, cause this creates inconsistency. Right now the mod implies that you can only do empty beacon stuff at empty beacons because you have the time there, which is at least somewhat consistent. If you can delay the fleet with drones after a fight, why can't you lay minefields after each battle or chat to your crew? Of course the reason is that these options need to appear in controlled, quantifiable circumstances to be balanced against other options.

R4V3-0N wrote:Didn't make much bug reports for CE but I noticed under the blue option at an empty beacon for the zoltan cruiser (I specificlly used the type B but I assume all 3 types work here..) that it says " 1. (Zoltan ship) Upgrade you teleporter devices..." ... I think it meant your....

Your what? :D Well the option says:
(Zoltan Ship) Upgrade you teleporter devices with late stage shield phase technology. [ Scrap: -70; Augment: Zoltan Shield Bypass ]

But yeah, I can see that this isn't exactly consistent if you don't have a teleporter yet... should probably be rephrased.
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby Artamba » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:42 pm

Sleeper Service wrote:To begin with the drone option was never meant to be very cost efficient. Again, I still don't see why drone systems would need this additional perk and why the player should be able to escape that easily when having combat drones equipped. Free escape is different from gaining a jump on empty beacons. I'm generally opposed to partly enabling empty beacon options after fights, cause this creates inconsistency.


Hey, brother! I find it pretty great that you understand why you implemented things one way or another, while resisting the usual 'I want MORE COOLNESS, and MORE POWER, AND MORE EASINESS!' suggestions who are made by people who don't take the time to think out why a mechanic they don't enjoy is that way. Like people asking to make it easy to get out of the shittiest situation you can get into (out of fuel facing a Tech Cruiser), for example. For the first time I am actually scared to the point of my pants flying off at the prospect of running out of fuel; I actually have to PLAN ahead or face actual(er) consequences!
You should have seen my face the first time I found myself at a beacon that didn't connect to the exit. Usually I can dive back under the oncomming tidal wave and make it out alive, but damn, I only NEARLY made it past the first guy! heh
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby stylesrj » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:17 am

Artamba wrote:Like people asking to make it easy to get out of the shittiest situation you can get into (out of fuel facing a Tech Cruiser), for example. For the first time I am actually scared to the point of my pants flying off at the prospect of running out of fuel; I actually have to PLAN ahead or face actual(er) consequences!


But that's the thing. I'm already scared of running out of fuel in CE. My main concern is when it happens in CE infinite.

Running out of fuel there can happen through no fault of your own. Since any event can occur (like... automated ships, followed by boarding parties then a Mantis raider who doesn't carry any fuel ever) in Deep Space and upgrades are expensive and stores are rare, even if you plan to jump to as many connecting beacons as possible (to scout out for a store) being out of fuel is easier than you think.

What could be done is that encounters with the Rebel fleet are toned down in intensity during CE Infinite. There's so much for the Rebels to grab and they can't spare all those cool cruisers to every frontier. Being caught by a light ship loaded with fuel would make a lot of sense lore-wise.

Regular CE can bring out the Tech Cruisers and stuff, because you're supposed to be legit afraid of running out of fuel there.

You should have seen my face the first time I found myself at a beacon that didn't connect to the exit. Usually I can dive back under the oncomming tidal wave and make it out alive, but damn, I only NEARLY made it past the first guy! heh


I once had an exit beacon halfway through a sector where the only connection was a single beacon at the very start. Being the foolish idiot I was, I didn't plan ahead and ignored that path completely to pursue a quest beacon in the rest of that sector. It was only after doubling back, I realised... I would be so deep in Rebel territory that I went "Might as well not play out the rest of this and restart. I'll be doing that anyway after I die slowly and painfully."
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.277b/Inf 1.267/EL 1.275

Postby steamtex » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:47 am

stylesrj wrote:lots of words


This is all too true. I haven't died to an enemy ship in CE Infinite even once. But I haven't won in CE Infinite, either, because I always run out of fuel before I can go anywhere.

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