FTL Captain's Edition 1.308/Inf 1.301b/EL 1.308

Distribute and discuss mods that are functional. Moderator - Grognak
Nicb1
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 8:56 am

Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.208c/Inf 1.209/EL 0.98f

Postby Nicb1 » Sat May 03, 2014 3:18 am

Frazer wrote:Okay, Thank's Nicb1, Highly appreciated! :)

That weapon idea isn't half bad in all honestly, it would bring a whole new mechanic into play, if it's Possible of course... If it is possible however, How many variations of the weapon would there be? Rocket's, Laser's, Beam's Etc.

Thanks, glad you like the idea.

In my opinion there would only be two variations of the weapon. A high speed projectile type similar to a laser shot and a one shot beam type(So the weapon will not be able to sweep across multiple rooms as I personally think this would make it too op).

Edit: Also here's a different coloured version of my concept. (This is the projectile type, Also there are two versions here as I was just screwing around with the sprite so it doesnt look like a ripoff of the industrial beam)
Any criticisms are welcome, whether it be about the idea or the sprite. Just take into consideration that i'm definitely not a pro when it comes to spriting.
Image
The lower sprites were my first attempts at creating a weapon.(And i know that the projectile looks awful)
This is what happens when i'm supposed to be working but keep procrastinating.
Last edited by Nicb1 on Sat May 03, 2014 6:23 am, edited 5 times in total.
New Guy
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.208c/Inf 1.209/EL 0.98f

Postby New Guy » Sat May 03, 2014 4:16 am

So, basically, that is a reverse adaptive beam/high powered focus beam?

AFAIK, the only way to utilize damage reduction on weapons is to use a beam weapon template. Adaptive beams start out weak, and progressively become stronger as it shoots. Focus beams have usually higher damage output than normal beams, but have the weakness for not being a true beam (that is, it can't hit multiple rooms at once).

Due to them being beams, the more shields the enemy has, damage is reduced by one.

I'm not saying that it's a bad idea, but I think CE already has something like this. :|
Image
======================
[WIP] Federation Strike Cruiser | Progress: 100% Art, 0% Coding
(Project pending until Superluminal2)
Nicb1
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Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 8:56 am

Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.208c/Inf 1.209/EL 0.98f

Postby Nicb1 » Sat May 03, 2014 4:20 am

New Guy wrote:So, basically, that is a reverse adaptive beam/high powered focus beam?

AFAIK, the only way to utilize damage reduction on weapons is to use a beam weapon template. Adaptive beams start out weak, and progressively become stronger as it shoots. Focus beams have usually higher damage output than normal beams, but have the weakness for not being a true beam (that is, it can't hit multiple rooms at once).

Due to them being beams, the more shields the enemy has, damage is reduced by one.

I'm not saying that it's a bad idea, but I think CE already has something like this. :|

Ah I wasn't aware that a weapon already existed that had its damage decreased for each shield level present.
Although this weapon is not the same as adaptive beams as its damage output will not increase each time it shoots (Mainly the idea was similar to what you described the beams as). Maybe the adaptive weapons should become their own class like what i've described.

Just another idea to throw out there. maybe the weapon would be able to shoot through shields, albeit with minimal effect, although if no shields are present the weapon would either A) Have a high chance of causing a hull breach or B) have a higher chance of damaging crew a lot (So less shields means it's ability to damage crew increases).

Edit: usually when I post give me a few minutes as I tend to edit my posts a lot.
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Estel
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.208c/Inf 1.209/EL 0.98f

Postby Estel » Sat May 03, 2014 4:56 am

AFAIK, it's not possible to change chance of breach/fire system/crew damage depending on how many layers of shield beam (any weapon, particularly) passed.

Also, I don't want to sound rude so don't take it wrong way or anything, but I think it's good idea to play a longer while with the mod and overall, stick around discussions here, before proposing weapon/mechanic changes (unless you're absolutely sure, that you got struck by genius idea ;) ). For example, the weapon type you're proposing is basically applied already, as much as it's possible to mod it into game - as said, via focus beams.

It's not related to adaptive beams in any way, BTW - it was in CE way before AE (of course, nothing prevent to mix it's mechanic with adaptives, creating adaptive focus beams - I vaguely remember seeing those too in game already, I think). It hits one room, can't miss, and have damage reduced depending on how many shield it passed - without draining those shield bubbles. Nothing prevent portraying focus beams as railguns, but I think that focus beams are quite established and polished in CE, so personally, I don't see particular reason for replacing it with something that only looks different (even if railguns/ballistic, non-explosive projectiles are quite fun idea, on itself - I tend to like those S-Fs where big dreadnoughts are firing at themselves with propelled mass weapons from caliber 100 cm guns rather than energy-based weapons, as it seems more appropriate for steel behemoths fighting themselves.)

Again, I don't want to sound discouraging or anything - it just a pity to see you "wasting" time on creating images for weapon that either can't be introduced into game, or is there already, under different form (unless Sleepy find a way to make use of those graphical ideas in other form, that is).

Also, when proposing changes of mechanic (not related to your post, but overall, about ideas that sometimes pop-up in this thread, from out of nowhere), it's very delicate matter. Let's take my humble example (sorry in advance :oops: :) ) - I'm here till quite early days of CE, and with all the amount of text that I produce here, I've proposed literally 3 changes to how certain weapons work gameplay wise. Just because is so FCKN delicate matter, and you need to really know this game in and out, test everything triple, etc - or your "awesome" proposal may, in fact, turn balance upside down. I'm amazed, seeing how effective Sleepy's mechanism for basing weapons at vanilla reference turned out to be in practice, with only few minor flops, corrected quickly, thanks to thoughtful input (and slow, careful approach to problem) from seasoned players.

The thing that after some time, just by reading, you get to know quite accurately what can and what can't be done via FTL modding, so you don't waste breath/worktime on outright impossible proposals. And that comes from someone like me, who haven't touched creating a smallest FTL mod, ever :D
---

Micro bug report:

1. Lanius surrenders doesn't give Zoltan negotiating blue event:
http://s7.postimg.org/gny871q21/lanius_zoltan.jpg

Not sure if it's a bug or a feature (Laniuses being ignorant to Zoltan Authority), but I guess that even the sole talent for negotiating could give greenies an edge here. Same apply for negotiating a PLAYER surrender, BTW - blue option is lacking.

Suggestion: When we're at Zoltan surrenders - I'm not entirely sure if the possible outcome where we "drop down our shield and engines and take whole salvo on the hull" is really good idea. Usually, when player choose option saying in blue letters something like "Those people can be still reasoned with, there is no need for violence", lowering one's shield and letting enemy damage you without reaction isn't what comes to mind. While whole way of acting makes sense when facing Zoltan border police etc (we know that they moral codex won't allow them to shot on defenseless opponent), it isn't making much sense when fighting thieves, pirates, or desperate people in quarantine sector (aka - anyone that can still shot at us with high probability). Or at least, it could give further option, like "We lowered our shields and stopped engines, but they're still coming in at attack vector, weapons hot!" that allow to change our mind and fight anyway.

2.I remember that the wreckage field which could result in ABADOTH quest is AE thing, but I think that CE could fix it anyway:
If the outcome of searching the battlefield is encountering Mantis ship that just jumped to (probably) finish the job, we're getting loot *only* from that mantis ship, completely ignoring wreckages, that were said to be plenty and contain much scrap, just a screen earlier :?

Cheers,
/Estel
Nicb1
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.208c/Inf 1.209/EL 0.98f

Postby Nicb1 » Sat May 03, 2014 5:05 am

Estel wrote:AFAIK, it's not possible to change chance of breach/fire system/crew damage depending on how many layers of shield beam (any weapon, particularly) passed.

Also, I don't want to sound rude so don't take it wrong way or anything, but I think it's good idea to play a longer while with the mod and overall, stick around discussions here, before proposing weapon/mechanic changes (unless you're absolutely sure, that you got struck by genius idea ;) ). For example, the weapon type you're proposing is basically applied already, as much as it's possible to mod it into game - as said, via focus beams.

It's not related to adaptive beams in any way, BTW - it was in CE way before AE (of course, nothing prevent to mix it's mechanic with adaptives, creating adaptive focus beams - I vaguely remember seeing those too in game already, I think). It hits one room, can't miss, and have damage reduced depending on how many shield it passed - without draining those shield bubbles. Nothing prevent portraying focus beams as railguns, but I think that focus beams are quite established and polished in CE, so personally, I don't see particular reason for replacing it with something that only looks different (even if railguns/ballistic, non-explosive projectiles are quite fun idea, on itself - I tend to like those S-Fs where big dreadnoughts are firing at themselves with propelled mass weapons from caliber 100 cm guns rather than energy-based weapons, as it seems more appropriate for steel behemoths fighting themselves.)

Again, I don't want to sound discouraging or anything - it just a pity to see you "wasting" time on creating images for weapon that either can't be introduced into game, or is there already, under different form (unless Sleepy find a way to make use of those graphical ideas in other form, that is).

Also, when proposing changes of mechanic (not related to your post, but overall, about ideas that sometimes pop-up in this thread, from out of nowhere), it's very delicate matter. Let's take my humble example (sorry in advance :oops: :) ) - I'm here till quite early days of CE, and with all the amount of text that I produce here, I've proposed literally 3 changes to how certain weapons work gameplay wise. Just because is so FCKN delicate matter, and you need to really know this game in and out, test everything triple, etc - or your "awesome" proposal may, in fact, turn balance upside down. I'm amazed, seeing how effective Sleepy's mechanism for basing weapons at vanilla reference turned out to be in practice, with only few minor flops, corrected quickly, thanks to thoughtful input (and slow, careful approach to problem) from seasoned players.

The thing that after some time, just by reading, you get to know quite accurately what can and what can't be done via FTL modding, so you don't waste breath/worktime on outright impossible proposals. And that comes from someone like me, who haven't touched creating a smallest FTL mod, ever :D
---


Cheers,
/Estel

Ah thats fine i'm not offended, infact I really don't mind comments like this. Really I only did the sprites out of boredom and if Sleeper likes them, I don't mind them being used for another role in the game.
I've been playing CE since Its early days way before AE was released, I just wasn't a person that posted much back then.
And with the sprites that I've posted so far, I origionally saw them as shooting energised slugs at extreme speeds, beams were just something I might have looked into in the future.
After I started screwing around with some of the pre existing sprites, I just felt the need to attempt to suggest a new weapon class into the game. Even if a similar weapon exists already a little variety/alternative to the beam wouldnt hurt in my opinion.

And again don't worry about it I haven't taken anything as an offence :)

Edit:
If you see this sleeper, consider it my application for doing the occasional sprite for CE if needed. I can do a better job than this, as these sprites have just been put together really quickly. None of these ones were made completely from scratch, they were all made using one of your sprites as a base.If I decide to continue spriting at a later date i'll put more detail in so you shouldnt be able to tell that it was based off something else. If my sprites are crap make sure to let me know so i can improve in the future.
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Estel
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.208c/Inf 1.209/EL 0.98f

Postby Estel » Sat May 03, 2014 6:37 am

Side note: I just love how various creative people are starting to contribute CE, which was a one-man effort, once (although based on work from many other people before, it was still a huge task to mix it up properly, then start adding new, awesome content) - like, rannl had basically joined "team" in full scale re EL part, or those awesome hulls constantly contributed, or... :) Now the offer of making sprites.

I think that the project already surpassed what sleepy initially suspected it will become in his wildest dreams (unless he have *REALLY* wild dreams ;) ), but looking at the momentum and vector, I see great potential for future. If only the maingame would be even more modding-friendly... :( Seriously, I would pay for FTL *again* (and I bought it twice already) triple or more, just to get all those hardcoded things exported as LUA scripts (aka "Don't Starve") or even something more accessible. Maybe we should start a kickstarter campaign to buy source code (and FOSS'ify it) from our favorite developing duo? ;)

/Estel
rannl
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.208c/Inf 1.209/EL 0.98f

Postby rannl » Sat May 03, 2014 7:12 am

Estel wrote:Side note: I just love how various creative people are starting to contribute CE, which was a one-man effort, once (although based on work from many other people before, it was still a huge task to mix it up properly, then start adding new, awesome content) - like, rannl had basically joined "team" in full scale re EL part, or those awesome hulls constantly contributed, or... :) Now the offer of making sprites.

I think that the project already surpassed what sleepy initially suspected it will become in his wildest dreams (unless he have *REALLY* wild dreams ;) ), but looking at the momentum and vector, I see great potential for future. If only the maingame would be even more modding-friendly... :( Seriously, I would pay for FTL *again* (and I bought it twice already) triple or more, just to get all those hardcoded things exported as LUA scripts (aka "Don't Starve") or even something more accessible. Maybe we should start a kickstarter campaign to buy source code (and FOSS'ify it) from our favorite developing duo? ;)

/Estel


Thanks for the credit Estel, never got mentioned like that by someone other then Sleepy ;)
There is that game rewrite project Vhati is working on, but I think he'll need a lot of help. Maybe I'll take a look at it in the future.

Nicb1, good job on those sprites. You can help with other mods too. The one I'm betting on as a good concept is Lighter Then Air.
The wise Sten
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Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:52 pm

Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.208c/Inf 1.209/EL 0.98f

Postby The wise Sten » Sat May 03, 2014 7:42 am

For scientific facts on railguns:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun


Nicb1 wrote:
Frazer wrote:-

Thanks, glad you like the idea.

In my opinion there would only be two variations of the weapon. A high speed projectile type similar to a laser shot and a one shot beam type(So the weapon will not be able to sweep across multiple rooms as I personally think this would make it too op).

Edit: Also here's a different coloured version of my concept. (This is the projectile type, Also there are two versions here as I was just screwing around with the sprite so it doesnt look like a ripoff of the industrial beam)
Any criticisms are welcome, whether it be about the idea or the sprite. Just take into consideration that i'm definitely not a pro when it comes to spriting.
Image
The lower sprites were my first attempts at creating a weapon.(And i know that the projectile looks awful)
This is what happens when i'm supposed to be working but keep procrastinating.


Railguns actually have no recoil, I would imagine. The idea is awesome and magnificient, railguns are one of the coolest weapons concieved. However if there was atmosphere in space the visuals would far cooler. Why is there no air in space!? :x
Nicb1
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Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 8:56 am

Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.208c/Inf 1.209/EL 0.98f

Postby Nicb1 » Sat May 03, 2014 8:29 am

I didn't actually know about railguns not having any recoil. It's easy enough to remove the recoil from the sprites if need be though. But then again this is a video game universe and the laws of irl physics don't have to always apply. In the future I will remove the recoil if requested.

Edit:
Well I've done a version with no recoil and refined a bit.
I won't post any more images unless sleeper wants me to do a few sprites for the mod.
Image
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Sleeper Service
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Re: FTL Captain's Edition 1.208c/Inf 1.209/EL 0.98f

Postby Sleeper Service » Sat May 03, 2014 11:46 am

Ah, the idea of having some kind of railgun/raildriver/magrail/kinetic weapon/projectile cannon/accellerator weapon. That has been around for ever, I think I read that the defs considered putting something in during development as well. I considered something like this several times, but I never really found a place for it in FTL. I try not to delude existing weapon categories and I currently see no real mechanic that would allow making railguns distinct in a lore friendly, coherent way. Damage reduction through shields is only possible with beams, but it would have been interesting for a railgun projectile weapon. If it would be possible to make projectile weapons that always hit, then this would be a great starting point for railguns IMO. Right now I see little weapon mechanics that are left unexplored, and I see none that would give railguns a distinct place in the game.

Thanks for the offer for help with spriting. But IMO that is where a lot of fun is at, so I probably continue doing that myself. ;)

rannl wrote:There is that game rewrite project Vhati is working on, but I think he'll need a lot of help. Maybe I'll take a look at it in the future.

Yeah overdrive has been arround pretty much since modding FTL became a thing. I hope this will be finished at some point, but it does not look like there is a lot of activity concerning the project.

Estel wrote:Side note: I just love how various creative people are starting to contribute CE, which was a one-man effort, once (although based on work from many other people before, it was still a huge task to mix it up properly, then start adding new, awesome content) - like, rannl had basically joined "team" in full scale re EL part, or those awesome hulls constantly contributed, or...

Yeah, Rannl definitely should get some more recognition for his part in CE.

Estel wrote:I think that the project already surpassed what sleepy initially suspected it will become in his wildest dreams (unless he have *REALLY* wild dreams ;) ), but looking at the momentum and vector, I see great potential for future. If only the maingame would be even more modding-friendly... :( Seriously, I would pay for FTL *again* (and I bought it twice already) triple or more, just to get all those hardcoded things exported as LUA scripts (aka "Don't Starve") or even something more accessible. Maybe we should start a kickstarter campaign to buy source code (and FOSS'ify it) from our favorite developing duo? ;)

:D I definitely did not expect this when I started working on Balanced Arsenal, back then, more than a year ago. :o Time passes... I totally forgot then: Happy birthday CE!

Estel wrote:Not sure if it's a bug or a feature (Laniuses being ignorant to Zoltan Authority), but I guess that even the sole talent for negotiating could give greenies an edge here. Same apply for negotiating a PLAYER surrender, BTW - blue option is lacking.

Its a feature. ;) I don't telegraph this very well, but if you surrender to Lanius yourself, then the event will point out that the Lanius care little about space combat etiquette. IMO that is coherent with the game displaying them as some kind of hard-to-communicate-with pillagers. To me, it would feel slightly off if you could negotiate terms based on some law they don't even know or care about, with no common language ground to begin with. Zoltan authority simply does not apply to them and diplomatic talent has limits.

Estel wrote:Suggestion: When we're at Zoltan surrenders - I'm not entirely sure if the possible outcome where we "drop down our shield and engines and take whole salvo on the hull" is really good idea. Usually, when player choose option saying in blue letters something like "Those people can be still reasoned with, there is no need for violence", lowering one's shield and letting enemy damage you without reaction isn't what comes to mind. While whole way of acting makes sense when facing Zoltan border police etc (we know that they moral codex won't allow them to shot on defenseless opponent), it isn't making much sense when fighting thieves, pirates, or desperate people in quarantine sector (aka - anyone that can still shot at us with high probability). Or at least, it could give further option, like "We lowered our shields and stopped engines, but they're still coming in at attack vector, weapons hot!" that allow to change our mind and fight anyway.

I like that this event shows that your crew really means it. Considering the huge amount of free stuff you can get through Zoltan negotiations (to the point where you might get free stuff for trying to avoid a fight) I'd say some possibility of having it backfire a little is OK.

R&D news:
Ion Flaks are done, complete with unique new projectiles. The cryo concept based on lockdown has also been implemented, in the form of "crystal heavy lockdown", on a couple of new and old weapons. I made an explosion graphic that really looks like the whole room gets completely crystallized, burring crew under crystals while stunning them for the time of lockdown. That opens some interesting possibilities, cause you can still beam your away team into that crystal mess, or set it on fire. Theseus will start with the Lockdown Bomb Mark II that causes this effect.

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