Flagship Diversity Beta - Need Testers!

Discuss and distribute tools and methods for modding. Moderator - Grognak
Gidoza
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Flagship Diversity Beta - Need Testers!

Postby Gidoza » Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:59 pm

I didn't board it, but all the doors were most definitely there, and further to that, they worked perfectly in the second and third states of the same Flagship!
meklozz
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Flagship Diversity Beta - Need Testers!

Postby meklozz » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:20 pm

Gidoza wrote:I didn't board it, but all the doors were most definitely there, and further to that, they worked perfectly in the second and third states of the same Flagship!

Aside from existing, doors need to link specific rooms, they don't necessarily work for whatever's closest. And flagship phases are separate entities, after all (the .txt files are what matters in this case), it's possible it somehow got broken, maybe due to a misclick at some point or some option.

@edit
Though just looking at said txt file it seems like it's generally fine. Maybe it's something else, maybe just an isolated incident, who knows. Maybe I'll play it next.
meklozz
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Flagship Diversity Beta - Need Testers!

Postby meklozz » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:03 pm

Well, I played through X.. The crew was indeed frozen in phase 1, and they didn't seem to be anymore in 2, they came to fight my boarders. Doors were fine, though, I could attack them. I have no idea what could be the problem, I'll try some things.

The flagship was also too much to the right, in both phase 1 and 2 (as far as I got).

Now for the balance: the cluster bombs are too strong. They're kinda insane, really. In phase one, it's somewhat manageable, because of the low damage output, but the ability to do something like 6 damage at once to a system is potential insta-death almost no matter what you're flying. The later phases add power surges, and it made it pretty much impossible to manage that with the ship I had, which wasn't half bad. One the other hand, if I had cloak, it would probably be almost laughable to dodge them.

I think part of it is that they seem to all go to level 4. In files I see you made them staggered at least, but as I mentioned before the arty don't entirely follow the files, and in phase 2 I thought to keep a backup save and hack each of them - all at 4. Even if they were staggered, I don't think even a crew of engi could keep the ship running at that point. 12-24 damage per ~20 seconds, even considering some of it isn't dangerous or might miss (if they haven't decimated the helm and engines yet, anyway).

I know they were supposed to be specialized, but I don't think my ship was anywhere near the worst possible opponent for it, and it was almost like flying one of those overpowered ships when it started shooting, only the other way around. Cloaking would also be too much of a singular counter to those weapons. If you want to keep them defeat-able with generally strong ships like vanilla or CE flagships are, I think this little guy fails.

@edit
About the not moving, I don't have a way to easily check since the yet lower amount of rooms makes my old save crash, but I think it has something to do with room numbers. Removing the left wing in superluminal and creating four other separated rooms (just so it'd launch, really) made it work, I guess because the deleted rooms (I think with IDs 0 and 1) made the numbers move over (changing where every system was, too), and the crew started moving. If you have a good save that works, I could try some other things, as it is I have to change room amount too much and I can't be sure what helped in the end even if I do something.

Oh, and a little more on balance, maybe it could be less crazy if the bombs were separated by effect or something, some could start fires but not do (as much) damage, some would do more crew damage, not all of this stuff at once. 2-3 bombs and fire to the shield room or something else essential right before a surge is just too impossible to stop (cloaking is pretty much the only good way) to be a reasonable worst case scenario.
Gidoza
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Flagship Diversity Beta - Need Testers!

Postby Gidoza » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:33 am

meklozz wrote:Well, I played through X.. The crew was indeed frozen in phase 1, and they didn't seem to be anymore in 2, they came to fight my boarders. Doors were fine, though, I could attack them. I have no idea what could be the problem, I'll try some things.

The flagship was also too much to the right, in both phase 1 and 2 (as far as I got).

Now for the balance: the cluster bombs are too strong. They're kinda insane, really. In phase one, it's somewhat manageable, because of the low damage output, but the ability to do something like 6 damage at once to a system is potential insta-death almost no matter what you're flying. The later phases add power surges, and it made it pretty much impossible to manage that with the ship I had, which wasn't half bad. One the other hand, if I had cloak, it would probably be almost laughable to dodge them.

I think part of it is that they seem to all go to level 4. In files I see you made them staggered at least, but as I mentioned before the arty don't entirely follow the files, and in phase 2 I thought to keep a backup save and hack each of them - all at 4. Even if they were staggered, I don't think even a crew of engi could keep the ship running at that point. 12-24 damage per ~20 seconds, even considering some of it isn't dangerous or might miss (if they haven't decimated the helm and engines yet, anyway).

I know they were supposed to be specialized, but I don't think my ship was anywhere near the worst possible opponent for it, and it was almost like flying one of those overpowered ships when it started shooting, only the other way around. Cloaking would also be too much of a singular counter to those weapons. If you want to keep them defeat-able with generally strong ships like vanilla or CE flagships are, I think this little guy fails.

@edit
About the not moving, I don't have a way to easily check since the yet lower amount of rooms makes my old save crash, but I think it has something to do with room numbers. Removing the left wing in superluminal and creating four other separated rooms (just so it'd launch, really) made it work, I guess because the deleted rooms (I think with IDs 0 and 1) made the numbers move over (changing where every system was, too), and the crew started moving. If you have a good save that works, I could try some other things, as it is I have to change room amount too much and I can't be sure what helped in the end even if I do something.

Oh, and a little more on balance, maybe it could be less crazy if the bombs were separated by effect or something, some could start fires but not do (as much) damage, some would do more crew damage, not all of this stuff at once. 2-3 bombs and fire to the shield room or something else essential right before a surge is just too impossible to stop (cloaking is pretty much the only good way) to be a reasonable worst case scenario.


Well first off I determined immediately to drop the bomb count to 3, which will probably be okay, and I'll see what to do from there. Will test that when I get to it. As for Cloaking - it didn't help me in my battle against them haha. I don't think each individual bomb can have a different effect, though - or at least there's no clear way for me to do that. I'll text with 3 Bombs and adjust damage or fire or whatever from there and see what happens.

When you fought X, were you on Hard, or not Hard? On Hard, all of those Artillery are going to be set at 4, but on Normal/Easy I had them set to different values. So yeah this is where knowing the difficulty level makes a difference.

Since I'm still on vacation, my immediate question about immovable crew is twofold - first, how many rooms are we talking about on X? If it's above a certain number of rooms, the easiest test would be to find another ship with as many or more rooms (there definitely would be a couple, to be sure). My other question is whether it involves rooms that are "too far left" or somehow "off the edge" of the actual placeable area of the ship, and that might be somehow screwing things up?

In any case, regarding fixing the offset - I might have to re-design each of them from scratch (not with all the settings, just the rooms) to get the bubble and offset values re-set properly. Wouldn't be major work, but knowing where the problem cases are helps me to fix it.
meklozz
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:11 am

Re: Flagship Diversity Beta - Need Testers!

Postby meklozz » Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:40 am

Gidoza wrote:When you fought X, were you on Hard, or not Hard? On Hard, all of those Artillery are going to be set at 4, but on Normal/Easy I had them set to different values. So yeah this is where knowing the difficulty level makes a difference.

It was normal, I've since tested a little more and it looks like all the artilleries may always default to the level of the last one on the list. This is probably why stages 1 and 2 of the vanilla flagship have all of them at 3 despite showing 4 in the files, and only go to 4 in phase 3 where there's no more beam or ion to mess things up.
This would mean you can only have all artilleries at one specific level at a time. If that's indeed the case, you could just make them all different weapons with different cooldowns (could also do different effects for each).

I'm not sure what about rooms it is, I don't really have a way to easily test now, either. I doubt it's anything about their position (and number is probably only relevant to my crashing game because of a save file), I think it may be about early room number IDs being separated from the main body.

And I'm not sure which version I played, but even at 3 bombs each I think it has too much ability to randomly screw you out of vital systems. There's a reason enemies don't get too much access to bombs in vanilla, and so many of them at once.. It takes a seriously specialized ship.
Gidoza
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Flagship Diversity Beta - Need Testers!

Postby Gidoza » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:35 pm

meklozz wrote:
Gidoza wrote:When you fought X, were you on Hard, or not Hard? On Hard, all of those Artillery are going to be set at 4, but on Normal/Easy I had them set to different values. So yeah this is where knowing the difficulty level makes a difference.

It was normal, I've since tested a little more and it looks like all the artilleries may always default to the level of the last one on the list. This is probably why stages 1 and 2 of the vanilla flagship have all of them at 3 despite showing 4 in the files, and only go to 4 in phase 3 where there's no more beam or ion to mess things up.
This would mean you can only have all artilleries at one specific level at a time. If that's indeed the case, you could just make them all different weapons with different cooldowns (could also do different effects for each).

I'm not sure what about rooms it is, I don't really have a way to easily test now, either. I doubt it's anything about their position (and number is probably only relevant to my crashing game because of a save file), I think it may be about early room number IDs being separated from the main body.

And I'm not sure which version I played, but even at 3 bombs each I think it has too much ability to randomly screw you out of vital systems. There's a reason enemies don't get too much access to bombs in vanilla, and so many of them at once.. It takes a seriously specialized ship.


OK, well-taken regarding Artillery values. It's not a problem, though, as the only real instance where I staggered the values was for the Bombs on X, so I can return those to normal, but might need to tweak Easy a little for the desired functionality.

Will try a room re-arrangement to see what happens with room order.

As for Bombs - point taken, but for me, this is where the Flagship's Engines/hull comes in. I'll keep the Bombs at triple and adjust the hull as necessary. The main reason is that a ship with a million bombs is hilarious. :P
Gidoza
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Flagship Diversity Beta - Need Testers!

Postby Gidoza » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:08 am

Okay, so a couple things to report from my single hour of testing since I've been back on vacation.


1. Apparently, FTL does not like certain values for the shield bubble. When trying to straighten things, it makes the game crash. Even numbers at least appear to be okay. The point is that I need to be careful when making these observations.

2. 3 Bombs seems to be perfectly good and even a bit weak. I was actually underwhelmed by Flagship X in this situation (going to adjust the other values very slightly to compensate).

3. Here's the important point and I think you're on to something but it needs more investigation.

You're absolutely correct meklozz about the room IDs affecting how the crew behaves. When I re-designed Flagship X and made sure room ID 0 was in the main portion of the Flagship (specifically the Pilot), the crew behaved properly.

What's still up for dispute is how exactly crew get assigned to certain rooms. My two tests indicate that A. They are not automatically assigned to the first 10 rooms placed on the ship, B. They are not necessarily assigned to rooms with consoles, and C. They are not necessarily assigned to rooms with systems.

I'm trying to figure out if there's any kind of pattern whatsoever in the crew assignment such that I can get crew in certain places. Thus far, I have crew showing up mostly in places that make sense, but not always (e.g. like why a crewman would show up in an empty room before the Shields room). This, ultimately, is not super critical - but being able to control it would certainly be useful.


As for everything else - it's a matter of going through each ship one by one, making sure it works, aligning everything so it's straight, and balance. However long it takes!
Gidoza
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Flagship Diversity Beta - Need Testers!

Postby Gidoza » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:49 pm

So right now I'm just redesigning all the ships from what I've learned to avoid some of the bugs and problems. Still have issues with proper centering (this is the most elusive trait) but even if not centered I'll have anotger batch ready by next week.
Gidoza
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Flagship Diversity Beta - Need Testers!

Postby Gidoza » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:35 am

Hello!

New version as of January 18, 2017 - lots of fixes, balance changes, and graphics adjustments, but still a bunch of work to do! I haven't forgotten the project for a second. :)

Here it is!

http://www.filedropper.com/customflagships11
Gidoza
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Flagship Diversity Beta - Need Testers!

Postby Gidoza » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:20 pm

Just a quick shout-out to those interested in this project:. I'm still working on each ship, and I've been balancing and testing out each one myself. Work has caught up with me so it's taking longer than expected, but I imagine that in a month or two I'll be ready with a release that only needs final tweaks and cosmetic changes. Thanks for all the help so far! :)

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