Flagship Randomizer 1.29 for AE, ACE and ACE Infinite

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Gidoza
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Re: Flagship Randomizer 1.29 for AE, ACE and ACE Infinite

Postby Gidoza » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:54 am

OK! So here's where I'm at.

I think (I certainly hope!) that I managed to correctly access all the appropriate Weapons and Drones I would need with the appropriate links to their graphics, and I have a specific file for all of them from which I would "pull" the necessary items when designing each individual Flagship class (even though some Drones for example are identical to the usual drones, there's a BOSS copy just to make the use easier - and also I HAVE made some edits from the originals that would be particularly useful simply for Boss battles).

Right now it's just a list of Weapons and Drones with their specs. Do I need to have that funny list thing that's at the top of all the Blueprints files where it's like Blueprints = huge list of names, here's what they are? I'm not sure how that works.

But anyways.

As it stands, the total Weapon/Drone list is done. Next, my Flagships specs list is almost done - I have a Word document with Flagships named from A-Z, 1-3 - that is to say, that each Flagship has the usual version 1, 2, and 3, and there are 26 variants simply named "A, B, C," and so on, and all the specs are written out in the document. I will proceed from there to actually generate each individual Flagship in Superluminal and save it individually.

From that point on, I could use some help with two things.

1. Getting each Flagship set to function properly in the game as a set, because I don't know how to make the linkages work.
2. Developing a Randomizer that just picks one of the 26 (and more if others contribute) and boost it into FTL for a random experience each time. Unlike the Flagship Randomizer, my preference (since all these are pre-set) is that there be NO fore-warning about what the specifications of the Flagship are, in order to make it more interesting. Or, it could be a "general description" that doesn't give enough information away to make it too easy.

Anyways, the two above points are where I legitimately need someone to intervene to make this project work, as these are beyond my comprehension.


Finally, to elaborate a little more on point 2., each and every Flagship design is intended to be balanced and roughly the same strength as the original CE Flagship (now known as Flagship A), but in many different variants. I am very cutthroat, so while I'm not aiming for anything overpowered, I guarantee that nothing will be weaker than Flagship A. HOWEVER! Many of the Flagships have "thematic" designs, which can either be devastating to the player if you have the wrong stuff, or really easy for you if you have the right stuff (hence why I don't want the player to know - to encourage a balanced playstyle and to have a few extra things in your cargo hold to switch around as needed). In any case, the point is that you have a large VARIETY of different Flagship setups, with various types of Weapon combinations and Drone combinations, or geared towards various Flagship combat styles. Even so, many Flagships share similarities. Here's some ideas of what you might find:

A. It's generally assumed (by me) that the 3rd iteration of any Flagship is going to be unloading its crew and depending on the AI to fly, so Slug Repair Gel (to ensure AI functionality) and Transporters are normal for iteration 3. However, this is NOT universal - and when it isn't, I've come up with other surprises that work instead.

B. Various types of Flagship - some will be well-rounded like the Flagship A, some are vicious boarding-style Flagships, others focus on crew-killing, others have a slow-paced defensive style, and yet others in iteration 1 or 2 may not even be designed to defeat the player at all, but simply to do enough damage that the player will lose in one of the upcoming iterations.

C. Boarding, which I generally find makes taking down Flagship A tremendously easy, is taken into account from a Flagship's defensive point of view. Boarding is definitely still effective, but you can't count on getting the same output from boarding strategies as you would previously - or at least not for every variant. Again, some will be very vulnerable to it - others won't (and ones that aren't vulnerable to boarding are usually vulnerable to something else, e.g. having weak Engines).

D. Whereas you might not know a Flagship's design from the outset, they ARE thematic and intended to be more or less, so you can take at least a generalized guess about what might be on the menu for the next iteration, and prepare for it. That's why it would be good to have extra stuff in your cargo hold, or make a "fake" attack and run away (if possible...) to see what it has.

E. For the record, I do use enough Drones that an Anti-Drone is a noteworthy investment, and there's enough crew-offensive versions of the Flagship that if getting your crew strong and full wasn't already a good idea, it really is now.

It's the kind of thing where I'd hope stylesrj would show up and make a bunch of videos beating or losing against Flagship variants, both for constructive criticism or for balancing reasons. :)


Anyways - if anyone can help compile the ships when I'm done and produce a Randomizer to make their juggling extra-effective, I'd REALLY appreciate it! Give me a week or two (probably two) to lay out all the designs and I'll be ready to go!

Credits of course go to Rannl who developed the Flagship Randomizer in the first place and inspired the current idea.

Cheers!
-Gidoza
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Sleeper Service
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Re: Flagship Randomizer 1.29 for AE, ACE and ACE Infinite

Postby Sleeper Service » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:11 am

Gidoza wrote: Getting each Flagship set to function properly in the game as a set, because I don't know how to make the linkages work.
Examin Flagship mods generated by the Flagship randomiser to see how those mods are structured and how assets link. The modding reference thread might also explain things further: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17135

Gidoza wrote:Developing a Randomizer that just picks one of the 26 (and more if others contribute) and boost it into FTL for a random experience each time.
Well I already mentioned that you can do that simply with folder structures and cryptic mod names:
Sleeper Service wrote:You can make those mods, release a pack that has a couple dozen of copies of each, given a cryptic name or better a number and have the player choose randomly by himself this way. You don't even need a randomize program to make this a reality

But if you want to code that functionality that shouldn't be too difficult, your call.
Gidoza
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Re: Flagship Randomizer 1.29 for AE, ACE and ACE Infinite

Postby Gidoza » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:08 pm

I think it would be better to code it rather than have the player pick one randomly from a folder. I'd need to know about the cryptic names (Are they static, or do they themselves change?) in order to use them, because presently I still don't understand. :)

I'll poke at your first part of the response and try to make one work and see if I get it right. If I do, that'll start us on a roll.


EDIT: Oh, wait, I think I see what you mean, now. You're saying that instead of releasing 26 Flagships, that I release instead...300, but those 300 include merely a million copies of the 26 with garbled funky names. I guess that's a way to do it...however, it DOES dodge the "real" randomness aspect I would want to implement (that is to say - if we do it this way, then once the player gets to the end, the player would see what the Flagship is, and could play again knowing exactly what it is - which is what I wanted to avoid). If someone could code it, I think I would indeed prefer that. Maybe I'm overthinking the matter, I just do think it's the better way.
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Sleeper Service
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Re: Flagship Randomizer 1.29 for AE, ACE and ACE Infinite

Postby Sleeper Service » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:50 pm

Gidoza wrote:(that is to say - if we do it this way, then once the player gets to the end, the player would see what the Flagship is, and could play again knowing exactly what it is - which is what I wanted to avoid)
That will always be the case, even if you use a coded solution. The player can always replay with the same mod if they chose to. You wont get around this unless you'd hardwire the randomization into the FTL executable somehow (which isn't really practicable right now).
meklozz
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Re: Flagship Randomizer 1.29 for AE, ACE and ACE Infinite

Postby meklozz » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Sleeper Service wrote:
Gidoza wrote:(that is to say - if we do it this way, then once the player gets to the end, the player would see what the Flagship is, and could play again knowing exactly what it is - which is what I wanted to avoid)
That will always be the case, even if you use a coded solution. The player can always replay with the same mod if they chose to. You wont get around this unless you'd hardwire the randomization into the FTL executable somehow (which isn't really practicable right now).

Well, theoretically, you might be able to get around that with a custom slipstream build that would just pick for you.

Not that I'd know how to do that at this point, but open source java is better to deal with than FTL exe.
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Sleeper Service
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Re: Flagship Randomizer 1.29 for AE, ACE and ACE Infinite

Postby Sleeper Service » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:36 pm

Yeah but that won't help if the goal is to prevent the player from fighting the same random boss twice, Or at least it would require the FTL executable to force execution of Slipstream as well. If the player doesn't execute Slipstream again then the boss would not be randomized again.

Both options seem rather overkill and out of reach for something as simple as a random flagship mod. Essentially you can't force the player to randomize the boss each tine FTL launches. But if people use this mod then they probably want to randomize the boss any ways, so they'd probably comply? And even if a player would want to fight the same boss again, I don't really see why this would have to be prevented at all cost. Well it definitely doesn't seem practicable.
Gidoza
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Re: Flagship Randomizer 1.29 for AE, ACE and ACE Infinite

Postby Gidoza » Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:24 am

Fair enough point on forcing randomization. I guess that is overkill. Nevertheless, going the 300-file direction also seems overkill and unnecessarily burdensome. If we just had a small code that randomized it each time like the current Flagship Randomizer does by just picking one and then heading to Slipstream to load it in (which you'd need to do anyways if you had the 300-file version), that would do just fine. Agreed that there's no reason to prevent a player from fighting the same boss twice.


However, different problem - I have my list of weapons from Flagship Generator, and I've loaded it with Mod Management in Superluminal. However, after I've done that, I cannot find the weapons anywhere in the weapons list when trying to pick them for the Flagship. What am I doing wrong? (kind of hard to test if things work if I can't even get to stage 1)

EDIT: Actually here is the link and EMBED of the .ftl file I'm trying to use that contains all the weapons (and graphics and such) so you can see if I did something wrong.

http://www.filedropper.com/customflagships

<a href=http://www.filedropper.com/customflagships><img src=http://www.filedropper.com/download_button.png width=127 height=145 border=0/></a><br /><div style=font-size:9px;font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;width:127px;font-color:#44a854;> <a href=http://www.filedropper.com >file upload storage</a></div>


EDIT 2: Last question - the Flagship C has a weird offset in it's outer skeleton graphic. How do I know if the rooms are placed properly and why is it like this, anyways?
Gidoza
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Re: Flagship Randomizer 1.29 for AE, ACE and ACE Infinite

Postby Gidoza » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:00 am

Allright, so I've developed my first Flagship for testing - the problem being that it crashes the game the instant my ship comes into contact with the Flagship. But I have no idea why. I've never done this before, so I'll need more information to know what I've done wrong. (Would something like forgetting to include a console in a room cause the game to crash...?)

Anyways, here's the files needed to (theoretically) make it run - maybe someone could have a quick peek...

http://www.filedropper.com/customflagships_1
This has all the weapon specs for the Flagship - it only takes specs from this file.

http://www.filedropper.com/flagb
A combined version of all three levels of Flagship with what I assumed needed to be done to make it work.

http://www.filedropper.com/b1
Flagship first level straight from Superluminal.

http://www.filedropper.com/b2_5
Flagship second level straight from Superluminal.

http://www.filedropper.com/b3_1
Flagship third level straight from Superluminal.


If I can get one of the Flagship designs working and understand how it works, the rest should be easy. Then it's just a matter of having a nice randomizer for it (and who cares if someone can replay the same ship - as long as it's easy to mix them up), and it'll be done!

Thanks,
-Gidoza
Gidoza
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Re: Flagship Randomizer 1.29 for AE, ACE and ACE Infinite

Postby Gidoza » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:07 am

Hmmmm...

As though what I just posted wasn't enough, I just went back and looked at the Flagship design I offered (Flag B), only to discover that this is in fact not the design that I designed. Some doors have disappeared; some Artillery have magically moved to different rooms; and entire hallways have vanished. What the heck???

EDIT: I then opened the exact same file a second time, only to discover that the Flagship that I did design was there and totally intact.

I don't understand...
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Sleeper Service
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Re: Flagship Randomizer 1.29 for AE, ACE and ACE Infinite

Postby Sleeper Service » Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:10 pm

Please stop derailing my threads. I'd politely request you post your content in your own thread.

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