Subset Games Forum

Ok I guess Stealth B could also have a radically different loadout that still has that high power glass cannon approach. Like three Heavy Scatter I or two Hull Crusher (that's an twelve damage kill salvo ) or something like that, but that would be less elegant. I'd prefer it to have a strong beam weapon. Actually two Hull Crusher would be pretty awesome, then again Rock B already showcases artillery lasers...

That's muscling into the Red-Tail's territory.
That ship is meant to have the rapid-fire barrages.

I don't know what it should have that's a buyable CE gun instead though but it needs to be a long-charging beam that does a lot of damage. Or the Naginata could be paired up with some Economy Missiles (like the 1-power Artemis). So you need to upgrade Weapons, Cloak and eventually get Hacking and/or shields to start wrecking without using up missiles.

I've won a stealth B game now, so if you're looking for suggestions, how about a small fix - level 3 sensors. They're mostly useless, and I'd never buy them, but they'd make the choice between which weapon to power up a much more informed one, letting you actually calculate damage you'll do, like the original stealth B can.

Switching the Nagi to a Maul (first shot wrecks the weapons room so you're not being continuously pummelled by return fire while charging up for your second shot) or pairing up the Nagi with a 1 power missile (missile takes out the shields so the Nagi can one-shot sector 1 and 2 enemies like the Vanilla Stealth B) could definitely work. I also don't think it would be such a bad thing for two ships to start with focus beams. Plenty of ships start with regular ol' beams and both the Kestral C and Lanius B start with Flak Is.

Another alternative for the Stealth B might be to introduce a new weapon that's basically a "fun-sized" Glaive. 3 damage on 3 bars, but a very short trail (35 px?). This could be paired up with a missile for vanilla-style one shot of early enemies after taking out the shields (since 9 damage across the 3 rooms you'll generally be able to hit) while only using 4 weapon power instead of having to having to bump the starting weapon power of the Stealth B up to 5 as would be required for stylesrj's suggestion.

As for the Zoltan B, the Pernach always struck me as a very mediocre weapon, so perhaps you could simply buff its damage output to 3 or, alluding to the old loadout you described (and I do also like the idea of giving it a nerfed version of said old loadout), pair it up with one Hasta? Or replace the Pernach with a two damage, two power "fun-sized" Halberd.

I dunno how viable these "fun-sized" beams would be from a balance perspective, but you do already have the Hasta in CE, which is a one power "fun-sized" Pike, so it's a thought at least.

Sleeper Service wrote:Actually the forum does not seem to acknowledge me editing the thread since I became moderator a year ago. I did edit the OP quite few times since then, might just be a forum bug.

Huh. Cool.

Sleeper Service wrote:Oh and on the topic of unavoidable crew deaths: I do agree that those are questionable from a design perspective. Although part of the deal there is that they are to some extend avoidable by choosing to not go to the sector types where they are present and treat them as part of the risk associated with their respective sector type. But yeah, I understand that they might seem unfair at times, so a while ago I made the No Traitor Patch for some guy on redit, feel free to use that. To some extent they are there to keep players on their toes even when everything plays out fine, this comes into play in CE Infinite especially.

Well I'll grant that I was talking more about the traitor event rather than the plague events in a quarantined sector. Of course, even those events are somewhat arguable, but with a quarantine sector it does sort of come with the territory, as you say. I will certainly use the No Traitor minimod from now on when playing CE, though. Thankyou. It definitely was that one event in particular that really grinded my gears...

I'm assuming I'd want to install No Traitor dead-last after all other mods and patches?

As for the Zoltan B, the Pernach always struck me as a very mediocre weapon, so perhaps you could simply buff its damage output to 3 or, alluding to the old loadout you described (and I do also like the idea of giving it a nerfed version of said old loadout), pair it up with one Hasta? Or replace the Pernach with a two damage, two power "fun-sized" Halberd.

I dunno how viable these "fun-sized" beams would be from a balance perspective, but you do already have the Hasta in CE, which is a one power "fun-sized" Pike, so it's a thought at least.

The problem is that the guns have to be buyable in stores. Adding those "fun-sized" guns would mean more store clutter and you might as well just have the friggin Glaive anyway.

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By the way Sleeper, any plans on reducing the amount of times you can encounter an enemy ship with a Pernach Beam in Sector 1? Unlike the Burst Laser II starts, the Pernach is guaranteed damage you can't avoid, especially when you can't afford 2-shield layers because you're playing Infinite and went to survive Sector 1 for a bit.

Oh and on the topic of unavoidable crew deaths: I do agree that those are questionable from a design perspective. To some extent they are there to keep players on their toes even when everything plays out fine, this comes into play in CE Infinite especially.

There's a No Traitor mod? And you get unavoidable crew deaths out in the infinite depths?
What is that madness? I don't think I've ever encountered traitors or sick people in deep space. Lots of unavoidable boarders, yes. Black Holes, also there. But instant crew deaths, no.

Gimmick with stealth B (at least early on) is waiting until enemy fired most of their weapons, cloak to dodge it, and then hit back with a huge burst of damage from a weapon with long cooldown, hopefully winning the battle right there.
So how about
Scythe beam x2 (2 power combined, 20 sec cooldown): Packs a punch, isn't used on any other ships currently, and has a long enough cooldown (20 sec). a strong 2 power beam combo, with no need to create new 2-3 power beam.
Scatter laser flak gun (2 power, 18 sec cooldown): with the above, makes 4 power weapon set. Chose this since this is the 2 power CE weapon with the longest CD that pops shields.

Basically, early on, you'd pop the shield with the laser flak, and use the double scythe beam originating from the shield room to destroy it, letting the beam get to work.

Probably stronger than vanilla early on due to lower CD of the weapons compared to glaive, but since it starts with its 3 weapon slots filled from start, should have a lot harder time as game goes by as enemy gets more shield power and 4 power from its full weapon slot don't cut it anymore and it can't one shot the shield room, compared to vanilla stealth B that just starts with the slot efficient glaive beam.

Transition to mid game might be a bit too brutal when enemy gets two shields since scatter laser flak gun doesn't do system damage? Maybe, if so, another possibility is for the starting scatter laser flak gun to be replaced with a long CD 2 power missile like ares (that might be too RNG dependent though, if the 20 sec CD missile misses, you can't do anything). Maybe a bomb (ion cluster bomb is 1 power and doesn't do damage so might not be able to 1 shot early ships, but would synergize well with scythe beams and little more dependable).

Huh.

So seeing as I'd started to talk on the forum recently, I decided I should play some more CE (I'd mostly been playing Stations Job lately and Strange New Galaxy before that) since I've been discussing it here. I started completely new file of CE on my new laptop so I'd have to unlock everything from just the basic Kestral A (something I haven't tried with CE previously)...

...and proceeded to fail miserably with it twice...

But then I beat the game with it on the third try, unlocking the Stealth A during the run... which I then proceeded to win with on my first try, unlocking the Stealth B in the process... which I then proceeded to win with on my first try, unlocking the Stealth C in the process... which I then, you guessed it, proceeded to win with on my first try, unlocking the Zoltan A in the process.

So yeah, way more success in all three Stealth ships than in the Kestral. Go figure.

Both the Stealth A and B runs got super-scary at certain points though, but with a bit of shop luck and a generalized refusal to accept defeat I managed to pull them both out. The Stealth B's starting suite still sucks, though, to the point where I actually sold both the Naginata AND the Ifrit for a Burst III and never looked back. Overall, the Simo is still definitely the best and most fun of the three Stealth configurations in CE. What it lacks in defenses it makes up for in sheer ball-busting firepower. The starting weapons didn't last the entire run, but they were awesome for as long as they were in play. I ended the game with Flak I, Burst Scatter II, and Maul Beam. The Rebel Flagship did not have a fun time...

I forgot to buy a rockman to complete my alien collection for United Federation on the third Kestral run, so I'll probably go back and do that next. I want dat Red-Tail and dat Swallow...

So yeah. It's been a little while for me, but I can confirm that CE still rocks. Some of the music in it is even better than the original score, and that's a high standard to meet!

Do any of these mods:
*Blueprint crafting
*CE BPaP_
*CE endless loot
*CE resource pack
*CE
*EL texture pack

Change the AI to be able to target systems more often than not?

Nope, the enemy AI targeting can't be affected by modding at all. The only thin that influences this is difficulty, with hard mode slightly increasing the chance of vital systems being targeted.

Guess Im just getting Really unlucky, its like every 1/12 shots is non system targeted

Is the Rock A supposed to be this bad? Especially the CE edition?

https://youtu.be/hb86_sUYp3k

Or did Katatonik just not have any luck getting decent weapons?
Would it be overpowered to give the Bulwark an Explosive Replicator at the start rather than an ammo manufacturer?