FTL Captain's Edition 1.308/Inf 1.301b/EL 1.308

[SomeFederationPerson]

Can I have a little help pls? I tried getting captains edition, then the replica ship mod (be sure to check it out!) and the infinite add on in that order but it didn't work and I could only get captains edition. Thx for the awesome mod btw!

[Russian Rockman]

Ok, so you all know how I love to experiment with the .xml and try things no one has ever done before. Sometimes its frustrating and takes a long time, but I still enjoy it for some reason. Maybe it has something to do with my OCD tendencies, but anyway... On to the topic at hand...

I think I may have found something with some practical uses, but first let me tell you why I was experimenting...

I have always been a big fan of the trade system in CE, but at the same time I don't like the fact that it takes up Augment slots, especially when there are so many cool new augments in the CE. So a long time ago I suggested making the augments into "weapons" that can be placed in your cargo hold. One of the problems with this was that you would have to "equip" the weapons before going to a store in order to sell them which requires people to remember to do that every single time before they jump to a store and sometimes may not even be possible, if you just jumped away from a fight for example.

I think I may have found a way to fix this issue though... I've tested this out and it works seamlessly. Basically it's a way to allow a player to visit the store, BEFORE being given the option to trade their special goods. This could also be useful for a couple of different things, event wise. At the very least you've got to admit it was interesting. Basically it works kind of like this:
1.)Player jumps to a STORE
[Event designated STORE displays intro flavor text, using ship load="" a neutral dummy trade station is loaded}
2.)Player chooses Continue...
[The station is set to ship hostile="true"]
3.)The Store screen opens and can be used normally, players can equip and unequip items using the Sell screen
4.)When the Store screen is closed the trade screen immediately appears with the trade options to buy and sell, this used to happen before the Store opened.
[This is the important part: The ship which was set to hostile, immediately surrenders because the surrender conditions are set to min="22" max="22". The station is reset to hostile="false".]
5.)The trade system works exactly the same as before.
I hope that all makes sense.

Comments and concerns about changing trade goods into weapons instead of augments :

• First off let me say that I know Sleeper is VERY busy doing other things so he's probably not all that concerned with completely redoing the trade system. It's not really a necessity to go and redo the trade system. The Advanced Edition may also give us more opportunities to revamp the trade system, who knows. However, I would still like to hear some people's opinions on this.
• I know it would be weird to have to equip trade goods as weapons but they aren't augments either, just saying... It makes sense to put them in Cargo though.
• So far to me it seems like if you are going to be a trade ship you really have to commit. I have played through the game many times, but very rarely am I ever able to hold on to a trade good long enough to actually sell it for a reasonable profit before I find an augment to replace it.
• Now, I realize that trading is meant to be very profitable if you do it right, but still if you want to be a designated trading ship you can hold onto only 1 or 2 trade goods as stated above. And then you can not use any augments, which doesn't quite make sense to me.
• Changing the trade good to augments instead of weapons would make trade "easier" and therefore might unbalance the trading system so if this were done it would need to be rebalanced.
• Launching the trade screen after viewing the Store screen lets you assess whether it is worth it to trade your goods and let the Rebel Fleet catch up in order to get the, say 10 or 20, extra scrap you need to buy something you may want.

The problems with changing trade goods into weapons:
1.)The trade items would have to be "equipped" before going to a store in order to get the blue options to sell them (Not really an issue anymore if you made the trade screen appear after the store.)
2.)This also prevents them from being used for blue options in other random events (Like Pharmaceuticals in a Quarantine Sector) (IMO not really a big issue because there are currently only like 2-3 blue options for trade goods anyway)
3.)Any ship that didn't have a weapons system could not trade (May affect some custom ships maybe, who knows)
(Not many ships have this though and I'm sure it could be worked around too if necessary)

The benefits of changing trade goods into weapons:
1.)A LOT more room for trade goods in Cargo, a major boost for pirate or manufacturing ships
2.)Trade ships could still use 3 useful augments and still participate in trade
3.)A designated trade or manufacturing ship could have the necessary Cargo Teleporter & Manufacturing Augments and have room for more than 1 trade good
4.)The many generic trading goods that Sleeper wants to CE will actually be able to be carried without wasting augment slots

-------------------------------------------------------------
On an unrelated note. I like the AI tips event when you converse when your AI, but normally it gives me useless info like what Door Control does. Do you think you could categorize the Tips into things like Systems, Hazards, Trade, Factions, etc... It would be cool to be able to search the AI's database for something specific you would like to know about.


Another idea I thought about when testing the store thing was a possibility of "re-rolling" the stores inventory. From what I tested trying to set something to /store when it is already a store crashes the game. However, it would still be possible to maybe choose to wait a while for more traders to come who might have other choices of weapons, drones, augments, or crew using events. Maybe for a bargain or maybe at a higher price.


Also, a couple of xml bugs I found..
events_ships.xml.append
<ship name="BS_CIV_TRADE_STATION" auto_blueprint="BS_STATIONS_CIV_TRADE">
<surrender chance="1.0" min="3" max="4">
This is the only ship event that says chance="1.0", everything else just leaves off the chance= entirely when it is a %100 chance. When I gave the station a 1.0 chance of surrender nothing happened, it didn't work, so i think you should just remove the chance= for this event.

events_pirate.xml.append
<eventList name="STORE_OUTLAW_TRAP_LIST">
<event>
<text load="STORE_OUTLAW_TRAP_TEXT_BOARDERS"/>
<boarders min="3" max="6" class="random"/>
</event>
<event>
<text load="STORE_OUTLAW_TRAP_TEXT_BOARDERS"/>
<boarders min="3" max="6" class="random"/>
<choice req="AE_ADV_EFFECTOR" hidden="true">
<text>Continue...</text>
I don't think this choice is supposed to have an Effector as a condition.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Can I have a little help pls? I tried getting captains edition, then the replica ship mod (be sure to check it out!) and the add on in that order but it didn't work and I could only get captains edition. Thx for the awesome mod btw!

All ship mods should be loaded after CE when using Slipstream. You can reorder the mods by dragging them. Check the front page for more details on mod order.

[Sleeper Service]

Thanks for all the testing and the bug reports. Overall, I'm happy with how the trade system currently is. That the player has to commit to it is intended, and sacrifice other advantages if you want to play a trade ship. You should feel weaker, but in the end more prosperous. I'd also say that production ships and pirates don't need any boost. They are already very powerful from an economic viewpoint.

Giving the player the ability to hold four goods and more is harder to control. And the pure ability to carry more goods does not yet help you to trade much more, cause you are still limited by the amount of shops you find. Selling and buying multiple goods would be incredible tedious to implement. And as you already realized, reworking and rebalancing this whole system is not much fun (it got even bigger now with all the new goods...).

Well, you already stated the pros and cons anyway. But I'd also point out that your solution would make the whole thing less intuitive. Currently, an obvious blue option just points you to your selling options. The player would have to learn much more functionality to understand the other system.

[Russian Rockman]

All good points. I guess a genuine trading ship could just not be able to use augments because its not an actual militarized ship. I also suppose that if you want more room for trade goods you could sacrifice the Cargo Teleporter because then you would just be hanging on to your goods until you can sell them off for around 90 scrap which easily makes up for the Rebel Fleet catching up. The Cargo Teleporter then I suppose is actually better for a pirate ship to dump all their generic goods they get from looting early. And you are right that the other way it would be possible to accumulate more goods then there are stores to sell the goods off at.

And yeah I realize completely that there are much better things you could do with your time then rework the trade system. Hypothetically though if you could do it the way I proposed I don't really think it isn't intuitive...

I may have made it seem complicated, but the player just sees 3 screens.
1.) Intro Flavor Text
2.) The actual store screen (where they have to "equip" the items they may want to sell)
3.) The trade screen with blue options
It's just a different order, it would even work with the way it works already with augments, you'd just get to look at the store first and then get blue options.

The only additional effort from the player (if the trade goods were "weapons") would be to "equip" any items they want to sell when they get to the store screen, the whole system already requires a little player cooperation, this isn't very difficult. The first flavor text screen could even remind you to equip what items you want to sell. Someone could even change the UI if they really wanted to make it more intuitive.

If the trade goods were weapons instead of augments technically the capacity of what you can carry, practically, would only be 1 more then it currently is. 4 Cargo slots, vs 3 augments. That's not really a big change and not everyone is going to want to fill their entire cargo with trade goods because then they cant collect additional weapons. Its possible, but most people won't do it. It wouldn't really affect the balance much in regards to pirate ships once you add the the new generic goods because those will fill up your cargo but not actually sell for much, and I'm guessing normally you'll get generic goods from piracy. If it was really necessary to balance this out each trade good could just be reduced in selling price by a small percentage. That way everyone else can still make some profit from trading, but a designated trading ship which really puts effort into selling off goods and learning where they sell best can make more money.

I do believe the current trading system works OK. Maybe I just need to do a run with my idea for a custom Red-Tail smuggler (because its perfect for a smuggler ship, it has the Rebel paint job), starting out with a Cargo Teleporter but just the 2 auto lasers. But I still wish I could participate in trading just a little bit when playing with other ships... I'd like to be able to do a little trading on the side to get a tiny bit of extra profit on some runs and also still have the possibility of focusing my whole build on trading on other runs and get almost all of my profit from trading. If you could carry more than 1 or 2 goods ideally you should be able to sell of a good almost every time you visit a store. All I can hope for I guess is that the Advanced Edition makes it easier to implement trading or actually adds a trading system itself...

[The Captain]

Quirks of the RNG: So I started a regular CE game in the Crystal B, had a choice of green or red for sector 2, chose green. Breezed past the opening dialog box to jump to a distress call. Belatedly realized I was in a quarantine sector when the dialog said the crew member I picked up seemed healthy. It was a Zoltan, who took up engineering duties.

I avoided distress calls when I could the rest of the sector, not wanting to lose a crystal dude (even though I upgraded my Medbay as soon as I could). Then, near the exit, I ran into the event where a mandatory health check reveals a crew member tests positive for the disease and goes crazy. Oh, shit! Who'd I lose? Well, it was the Zoltan. Unfortunate, but phew, not a crystal.

Got out of the sector, next distress call I decided to risk letting the mystery shuttle close. Got a replacement Zoltan. Go figure.

[SomeFederationPerson]

Ok, so you all know how I love to experiment with the .xml and try things no one has ever done before. Sometimes its frustrating and takes a long time, but I still enjoy it for some reason. Maybe it has something to do with my OCD tendencies, but anyway... On to the topic at hand...

I think I may have found something with some practical uses, but first let me tell you why I was experimenting...

I have always been a big fan of the trade system in CE, but at the same time I don't like the fact that it takes up Augment slots, especially when there are so many cool new augments in the CE. So a long time ago I suggested making the augments into "weapons" that can be placed in your cargo hold. One of the problems with this was that you would have to "equip" the weapons before going to a store in order to sell them which requires people to remember to do that every single time before they jump to a store and sometimes may not even be possible, if you just jumped away from a fight for example.

I think I may have found a way to fix this issue though... I've tested this out and it works seamlessly. Basically it's a way to allow a player to visit the store, BEFORE being given the option to trade their special goods. This could also be useful for a couple of different things, event wise. At the very least you've got to admit it was interesting. Basically it works kind of like this:
1.)Player jumps to a STORE
[Event designated STORE displays intro flavor text, using ship load="" a neutral dummy trade station is loaded}
2.)Player chooses Continue...
[The station is set to ship hostile="true"]
3.)The Store screen opens and can be used normally, players can equip and unequip items using the Sell screen
4.)When the Store screen is closed the trade screen immediately appears with the trade options to buy and sell, this used to happen before the Store opened.
[This is the important part: The ship which was set to hostile, immediately surrenders because the surrender conditions are set to min="22" max="22". The station is reset to hostile="false".]
5.)The trade system works exactly the same as before.
I hope that all makes sense.

Comments and concerns about changing trade goods into weapons instead of augments :

• First off let me say that I know Sleeper is VERY busy doing other things so he's probably not all that concerned with completely redoing the trade system. It's not really a necessity to go and redo the trade system. The Advanced Edition may also give us more opportunities to revamp the trade system, who knows. However, I would still like to hear some people's opinions on this.
• I know it would be weird to have to equip trade goods as weapons but they aren't augments either, just saying... It makes sense to put them in Cargo though.
• So far to me it seems like if you are going to be a trade ship you really have to commit. I have played through the game many times, but very rarely am I ever able to hold on to a trade good long enough to actually sell it for a reasonable profit before I find an augment to replace it.
• Now, I realize that trading is meant to be very profitable if you do it right, but still if you want to be a designated trading ship you can hold onto only 1 or 2 trade goods as stated above. And then you can not use any augments, which doesn't quite make sense to me.
• Changing the trade good to augments instead of weapons would make trade "easier" and therefore might unbalance the trading system so if this were done it would need to be rebalanced.
• Launching the trade screen after viewing the Store screen lets you assess whether it is worth it to trade your goods and let the Rebel Fleet catch up in order to get the, say 10 or 20, extra scrap you need to buy something you may want.

The problems with changing trade goods into weapons:
1.)The trade items would have to be "equipped" before going to a store in order to get the blue options to sell them (Not really an issue anymore if you made the trade screen appear after the store.)
2.)This also prevents them from being used for blue options in other random events (Like Pharmaceuticals in a Quarantine Sector) (IMO not really a big issue because there are currently only like 2-3 blue options for trade goods anyway)
3.)Any ship that didn't have a weapons system could not trade (May affect some custom ships maybe, who knows)
(Not many ships have this though and I'm sure it could be worked around too if necessary)

The benefits of changing trade goods into weapons:
1.)A LOT more room for trade goods in Cargo, a major boost for pirate or manufacturing ships
2.)Trade ships could still use 3 useful augments and still participate in trade
3.)A designated trade or manufacturing ship could have the necessary Cargo Teleporter & Manufacturing Augments and have room for more than 1 trade good
4.)The many generic trading goods that Sleeper wants to CE will actually be able to be carried without wasting augment slots

-------------------------------------------------------------
On an unrelated note. I like the AI tips event when you converse when your AI, but normally it gives me useless info like what Door Control does. Do you think you could categorize the Tips into things like Systems, Hazards, Trade, Factions, etc... It would be cool to be able to search the AI's database for something specific you would like to know about.


Another idea I thought about when testing the store thing was a possibility of "re-rolling" the stores inventory. From what I tested trying to set something to /store when it is already a store crashes the game. However, it would still be possible to maybe choose to wait a while for more traders to come who might have other choices of weapons, drones, augments, or crew using events. Maybe for a bargain or maybe at a higher price.


Also, a couple of xml bugs I found..
events_ships.xml.append
<ship name="BS_CIV_TRADE_STATION" auto_blueprint="BS_STATIONS_CIV_TRADE">
<surrender chance="1.0" min="3" max="4">
This is the only ship event that says chance="1.0", everything else just leaves off the chance= entirely when it is a %100 chance. When I gave the station a 1.0 chance of surrender nothing happened, it didn't work, so i think you should just remove the chance= for this event.

events_pirate.xml.append
<eventList name="STORE_OUTLAW_TRAP_LIST">
<event>
<text load="STORE_OUTLAW_TRAP_TEXT_BOARDERS"/>
<boarders min="3" max="6" class="random"/>
</event>
<event>
<text load="STORE_OUTLAW_TRAP_TEXT_BOARDERS"/>
<boarders min="3" max="6" class="random"/>
<choice req="AE_ADV_EFFECTOR" hidden="true">
<text>Continue...</text>
I don't think this choice is supposed to have an Effector as a condition.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Can I have a little help pls? I tried getting captains edition, then the replica ship mod (be sure to check it out!) and the add on in that order but it didn't work and I could only get captains edition. Thx for the awesome mod btw!

All ship mods should be loaded after CE when using Slipstream. You can reorder the mods by dragging them. Check the front page for more details on mod order.

I tried putting on the infinite add on after the captains edition and it never worked no matter how many times I tried to get it to work, I appreciate the help thx.

[Russian Rockman]

??????????? Why?

[SomeFederationPerson]

??????????? Why?

I really don't know, I got slipstream, then captains edition, then the infinite addon, is there anything else im missing? Also I can't install any ship mods without it crashing. Thx for the help

[Sleeper Service]

Russion Rockman already replied to you, no need to spam the thread with needlessly quoted messages.

All ship mods should be loaded after CE when using Slipstream. You can reorder the mods by dragging them. Check the front page for more details on mod order.

Thats really just all you have to know. Check the load order in the opening post of the thread, then drag the mods in Slipstreams interface into the right order. Should work then.

[Russian Rockman]

Yeah, @SomeFederationPerson by Why? I meant why quote the whole post.......... Only a few sentences were addressed to you. I hope your problem gets resolved though.