FTL Captain's Edition 1.308/Inf 1.301b/EL 1.308

Distribute and discuss mods that are functional. Moderator - Grognak
Nevill
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Re: [open beta] FTL Captains Edition 0.962

Postby Nevill » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:28 pm

snowhusky5 wrote:1: usually space stations aren't that common, you probably just got unlucky

My gripe is less with how common they are, and more with that they don't add anything to the experience if encountered in early sectors as they are now. I like the idea, I like the choice you get after defeating the station, but the current execution does not do it justise, IMO.
snowhusky5 wrote:2: in vanilla you saw the ship graphics for ships that were out of fuel/had a ftl malfunction, even though you can't fight them, so I think it makes sense to have space station graphics for the events that have a peaceful space station.

Ah, that is correct. Then again, you do not get an image for the ship that was stuck in an asteroid, nor you get an image for the federation ship that got lost in a nebula. The vanilla game is not very consistent on this one. Still, the graphics you get in vanilla seem to be different each time depending on the encounter. There is only one type of space station graphics currently implemented, and seeing it in every other event gest old quickly.
snowhusky5 wrote:5: I've tried it a few times, and surrendering to AIs seems to be useless - they don't give you anything. The only reason you'd do that is if you somehow got the surrender offer while it is still powerful enough to hurt you, which you usually don't

You seem to misunderstand. The event did nothing, that is, absolutely nothing. It did not stop the drone from attacking (this is intended), but it did not inconvenience me in any way (this, probably, was not intended). I do not know if it is the case now, but it might be a good spot to implement the mechanics when that choice could either give you 50% chance of AI actually surrendering and rewarding you, or 50% chance of some sort of handicap (depowering your weapons, as the description implies, and repairing the weapons of AI, because they are usually destroyed at this point).
snowhusky5 wrote:6:there's not really much the mod can do about enemies not being able to hurt you, except not letting them have light lasers/etc. And yes, missile drones are real asses.

I know little of FTL modding, so I do not know if it is possible to equip enemies with weapon bundles (and thus not group beam weapons with light lasers unless they have something else). I haven't seen a ship with nothing but beam weapons in vanilla, so to me it did not seem that they draw weapons from a random pool.

Sleeper Service wrote:You play normal I guess?

I pride myself on never playing on easy. :P

Sleeper Service wrote:Boarding ships can deal with these just like they can deal with other auto ships: By fleeing, by getting weapons or by tedious and dangerous quick boarding manoeuvres.

Fleeing I can understand, but you do not have weapons in the first sector, and when the station in question only has 2 systems, there is not much room for boarding maneuvers. Taking 2 HP by boarding out of 20 does not make a difference. It is either waiting for 2 minutes for FTL drive to recharge (we are talking starting sectors here, which means no engine upgrades), or firing your basic laser for 1 HP at a time for the same 2 minutes. Not fun.

I still think that moving them to later sectors (where players get more options) is the best way of dealing with the problem.

Sleeper Service wrote:How many playthroughs did you do with the mod?

The one I started is currently in progress. :) I still think that battles with regular ships are more interesting, from a tactical point of view. If I only encountered space stations once or maybe twice per sector, and they were armed to the teeth death stars, that would make fights against them much more distinct from the regular fare, which, I presume, was the intention.

Sleeper Service wrote:The difference between Light Defense MKII and Defense MKII is that Light Defense MKII can't shoot down enemy laser fire.

I got that much from the description. :) The question I was asking, what was the difference between Light Defense MKII and Defense MKI? Speed? Is that enough to warrant a new drone unit?

There is a perfectly good idea of a drone that only shoots lasers, but it does not seem to be implemented.

Sleeper Service wrote:Explaining what I had in mind for the AI surrender would take the fun out of it.

I won't ask you what you had in mind, I just wanted to confirm if the event actually does something and if it is not a 'false choice'. I seem to have an avertion to these.

Sleeper Service wrote:Exactly, that's how Vanilla FTL feels to me, that part of the fun and that's how I want the mod to feel.

The original strikes an intricate balance between difficulty and fun. For the most part, the mod retains this while expanding on content, which is quite an achievement. Still, some parts feel more right than the others.
Nevill
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Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:06 am

Re: [open beta] FTL Captains Edition 0.962

Postby Nevill » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:12 am

And so it continues. Again, in no particular order.

What do I know? The laser-only-shooting defence drone is, apparently, in the game already. Ok, then.
Light Defense MKII does not shoot asteroids, although the description implies otherwise.
I take back what I said about the balance in the mod. Triple shooting missile launcher, some kind of laser, a Beam Drone and an Ion Drone by the 3rd sector? Are you kidding me? Thank Random Number God I had a defense drone handy for what little extra protection it provided in the fight, but most of the ships would fold right there.
http://postimg.org/image/ygi18juih/
This encounter was a touch of a genius. Hull drone and a defensive plating do make a difference in a fight. Sadly, for some reason the hull drone was so slooooow it didn't really do much. But the idea is very cool, I wish ships did that more often.
http://postimg.org/image/7g48jz67t/
This encountrer seem to be badly designed. No real weapons to speak of, lots of HPs and a defensive plating to waste time on. I hoped that space stations will be more threatening later on, but that was sector 4, and they are still harmless. Also, more typos. :)

http://postimg.org/image/nfmw3j29l/
And so it ends, rather abruptly. Exit beakon, rock controlled sector, CTD.

That was a fun, if a bit flawed, ride. I think I'll do another.
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Sleeper Service
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Re: [open beta] FTL Captains Edition 0.962

Postby Sleeper Service » Sat Jul 13, 2013 9:28 am

Nevill wrote:The original strikes an intricate balance between difficulty and fun. For the most part, the mod retains this while expanding on content, which is quite an achievement. Still, some parts feel more right than the others.


Thanks. :) As said I'm taking your feedback seriously and will adjust the mod accordingly.

Nevill wrote:I got that much from the description. :) The question I was asking, what was the difference between Light Defense MKII and Defense MKI? Speed? Is that enough to warrant a new drone unit?


Aah oopsi. Ok spoiler: Light Defense MKII not only moves but also fires much faster and has a higher projectile speed than Defense MKI. That is relevant when defending against swarm missiles and in asteroid fields. I might adjust the description to make this more clear.

Nevill wrote:You seem to misunderstand. The event did nothing, that is, absolutely nothing. It did not stop the drone from attacking (this is intended), but it did not inconvenience me in any way (this, probably, was not intended). I do not know if it is the case now, but it might be a good spot to implement the mechanics when that choice could either give you 50% chance of AI actually surrendering and rewarding you, or 50% chance of some sort of handicap (depowering your weapons, as the description implies, and repairing the weapons of AI, because they are usually destroyed at this point).


More spoiler: The event can have almost exactly that outcome, just with the sideline that AI surrenders never reward you with scrap. 40% of the surrenders are just the AI dicking around, 40% are real surrenders with no reward and 20% are special positive/negative outcomes. As snowhusky pointed out: aiming for an surrender might save your life in some rare cases or be the more economical option. The "depowering weapons" flavour text is kind of incoherent i guess.
snowhusky5
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Re: [open beta] FTL Captains Edition 0.962

Postby snowhusky5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 12:55 pm

I like the wide variety of names for the rebel cruisers :P 'Arrested development' XD
The light defense drone mk2 seems to be objectively better than the regular defense drone, but only costs slightly more and still uses 2 power. Might want to make it rarer/more expensive to balance it.
Also, the space bar event is very interesting. I'm sure there's a lot of possible outcomes for that.
Nevill
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Re: [open beta] FTL Captains Edition 0.962

Postby Nevill » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:33 pm

Sleeper Service wrote:Light Defense MKII not only moves but also fires much faster and has a higher projectile speed than Defense MKI. That is relevant when defending against swarm missiles and in asteroid fields. I might adjust the description to make this more clear.

That is strange. I am almost certain it did not shoot down a single asteroid while I was fighting in an asteroid field, and 2 out of 3 missiles that were launched by that 3-shot-for-the-cost-of-1 weapon always got through my defenses. Are you sure that it works as intended? It might have been an extremely bad luck at work.

My second try with the stealth ship did not get far, though not by my own fault. I've got CTD in the 2nd sector with the very same error. A couple of points of interest:

1) The complete lack of space stations on this run (thank God). Maybe the first game was a fluke.
2) I've got Scythe Beam for free in a random event and got to use it as a blue option two nodes after the event. It is very nice to see new weapons being an integral part of the game rather than a simple extension of the vanilla arsenal.
3) I found a Light Missile Defense Drone. I did not get to use it, but the cost seemed a little too cheap for a defensive system that allows you to prevent otherwise unavoidable damage.
snowhusky5
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Re: [open beta] FTL Captains Edition 0.962

Postby snowhusky5 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:15 pm

Nevill wrote:
Sleeper Service wrote:Light Defense MKII not only moves but also fires much faster and has a higher projectile speed than Defense MKI. That is relevant when defending against swarm missiles and in asteroid fields. I might adjust the description to make this more clear.

That is strange. I am almost certain it did not shoot down a single asteroid while I was fighting in an asteroid field, and 2 out of 3 missiles that were launched by that 3-shot-for-the-cost-of-1 weapon always got through my defenses. Are you sure that it works as intended? It might have been an extremely bad luck at work.

My second try with the stealth ship did not get far, though not by my own fault. I've got CTD in the 2nd sector with the very same error. A couple of points of interest:

1) The complete lack of space stations on this run (thank God). Maybe the first game was a fluke.
2) I've got Scythe Beam for free in a random event and got to use it as a blue option two nodes after the event. It is very nice to see new weapons being an integral part of the game rather than a simple extension of the vanilla arsenal.
3) I found a Light Missile Defense Drone. I did not get to use it, but the cost seemed a little too cheap for a defensive system that allows you to prevent otherwise unavoidable damage.

It's kinda cool how you can use the new weps/drones as specific blue options. The scythe beam, a repurposed mining beam, being able to actually mine things. The effectors are useful in a coule of situations. And there are others as well ;) I'm not having that problem with the light defense drone though. Maybe youre just getting unlucky with where the drone is vs where the projectiles come?
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Sleeper Service
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Re: [open beta] FTL Captains Edition 0.962

Postby Sleeper Service » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:20 am

snowhusky5 wrote:3) I found a Light Missile Defense Drone. I did not get to use it, but the cost seemed a little too cheap for a defensive system that allows you to prevent otherwise unavoidable damage.


Oh don't worry, that drone does a terrible job at that.

snowhusky5 wrote:That is strange. I am almost certain it did not shoot down a single asteroid while I was fighting in an asteroid field, and 2 out of 3 missiles that were launched by that 3-shot-for-the-cost-of-1 weapon always got through my defenses. Are you sure that it works as intended? It might have been an extremely bad luck at work.


Defence drones sometimes have problems dealing with swarm missiles because they acquire each incoming missile as a new high priority target. The way drone targeting works is hard coded and I can't do anything about it. That partly incompetence is one of the reason the drone is comparable cheap.

Modification of stores for Trade Extension (TE_) is complete now. Some custom events for trade goods will be created next, piracy has already been modified to contain trade goods as loot and will be further expanded. I consider giving Rock, Mantis and Slug ships unique blue options that eliminate negative consequences of committing acts of piracy.
Last edited by Sleeper Service on Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DinosaurSpyKraig
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Re: [open beta] FTL Captains Edition 0.962

Postby DinosaurSpyKraig » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:49 am

Will I need to uninstall

    Advanced Battle Systems
    Augments Revived
    HighresBackgrounds
    Weaponanza
or any PLAYER ship mods?

I would include links but I'm having trouble finding them. I'm not really sure, even after reading the post, exactly what will conflict with this mod.
Torchwood202
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Re: [open beta] FTL Captains Edition 0.962

Postby Torchwood202 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:24 am

DinosaurSpyKraig wrote:Will I need to uninstall

    Advanced Battle Systems
    Augments Revived
    HighresBackgrounds
    Weaponanza
or any PLAYER ship mods?

I would include links but I'm having trouble finding them. I'm not really sure, even after reading the post, exactly what will conflict with this mod.


All of these mods will NOT conflict...Idk about ALL the player ships.
Nevill
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:06 am

Re: [open beta] FTL Captains Edition 0.962

Postby Nevill » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:27 pm

The mod supports Balanced Arsenal for Player Ships Addon 1.2. I tried it, and wanted to make a comment in the corresponding thread, but since it is no longer maintained separately, I'll do it here.

Engi type A does not have an attacking drone, only Ion Atrillery weapon. It can't damage enemy ships in any way.
Engi type B no longer has Boarding Drone and is thus highly susceptible to boarding.

There were a pair of other desicions I did not quite agree with, but those were not game-breaking, so I'll list them separately.

Kestrel A - perfectly fine, a bit less powerful than vanilla Kestrel, which is good.
Kestrel B - a bit underpowered. I'll give my reasoning below.

See, I judge ship power based on what kind of enemies it can handle, and that mostly includes the ability to pierce through their shields. Vanilla ships could be split into two distinct categories - those that required a good bit of luck to navigate them to 3rd/4th sector, and those that didn't require it all that much. For example, a Zoltan ship might end the Mantis Cruiser run right there (no way to get boarders across, no way of piercing the shield quickly, low engines mean low chance of escape). On the other hand, The Nesasio can handle everything that is thrown at it, including drones and Zoltan shields. In general, there are several factors that contribute to the early survivability:
1) Shield piercing capabilities. If you can disable their shields reliably, you will win much more often.
2) Weapon speed. I can win 8 out of 10 games on The Nesasio, but maybe only 2 out of 10 with DA-SR 12. The reason is that the Glaive beam takes too long to recharge. If they hit your weapons bay too many times, you are back at square one.
3) Defensive capabilities. Whenever a ship does not have shields, good engines can offset that. The opposite in not quite as true. The Ajudicator only has Zoltan shields and 1 point in engines. If it encounters an enemy that can eat through shields fast (say, a beam drone), and if it can not disable their weapons quickly (say, anothe Zoltan ship), it is dead.
4) Resourse intensity. Ships that are resourse intensive need to secure an alternative method before their resourses run out. Ships that rely mostly on lasers and beams are easier to handle.

Most of the ships that are easier to win with than others have several of these poins covered:
Kestrel Cruiser variants have 1, 2 and 4 (Artemis missile quikly disables enemy shields or their weapons, then Burst laser finishes the job), Engi A has 1, 2 and 4 (need to use only 1 drone per encounter), Stealth A has all of them (10 seconds recharge on your weapons allows you to disable theirs without taking damage), Federation cruiser has 1 and 4, etc.

Vanilla Red Tail was OP, there is no question about it, and the reason that made it OP was quick firing lasers that allowed to pierce up to 3 shields. It could go up to sector 6 without weapon upgrades and still emerge victorious. Your mod tones it down, which is good, but I am afraid it tones it down a bit too much. It is now useless against enemies with level 2 shields. I feel that giving it 2 old lasers and 1 auto-laser would make it more competitive without making it much stronger overall.

Stealth A - good. Plays the same, but a small hull beam provides more tactical options. Better than vanilla, which already was one of the best ships in the game. I'd give a small hull beam 11 second reload time, but that is too small a detail to argue about.
Stealth B - somewhat on par with vanilla (which was terrible, BTW). Lacks the ability to pierce 2nd level shields, which, coupled with low engines and no shields, may lead to an untimely demise in the very 1st sector. I'd give it an FTL recharge booster. It fits the theme of the ship (fast and stealthy) and allows it to run away from impossible encounters. A single-shot low-key ion weapon might be nice, too, in case of encountering a Zoltan ship.

Engi A - currently unplayable, but the idea seems solid. An Ion Artillery seem a bit too strong, but the ship loses a bit of versatility that comes with short reload times, so it should balance out.
Engi B - again, no way of piercing level 2 shields, though the original was the same. Still, the original could drop 1st level shields, and cause 4 damage over the course of 10 seconds with a heavy laser (which completely disables any system). This ship can't reliably hit the target twice with a laser before the ion effect expires unless the Engi leaves his pilot seat. It takes too long to disable the weapon system, which makes the ship inferior.

Federation A - worse than vanilla, but still playable. Severely lacks firepower, shield piercing comes mostly from the artillery beam, but it only charges once in a blue moon. I'd give it another weapon set altogether.
Federation B - the ship is the carbon copy of Federation A, except that it comes with an upgraded Artillery beam an a missile launcher. Old dual laser (type B layout) behaves exactly the same as two old lasers (type A layout), requires only 1 power and 1 weapon slot. This makes Federation B superior in absolutely every way without changing the way it plays one bit.

Mantis A - the Big Bomb is, essentially, Breach MkII, without breach. A bit too powerful for its 1 power. Compared to vanilla, the ship can not deal with automated scouts in any way. Can light lasers break through Zoltan shields?
Mantis B - utterly useless against Zoltans. This is consistent with vanilla, but not necessarily good. Low key ion weapon would be much appreciated. It does not have any damaging weapons anyway, so this won't affect balanse much. Also, a typo in the boarding drone description.

Slug A - no way to deal with automated ships, no shield piercing capabilities. If it does not find another weapon by the time enemy has 2nd level shields, it is doomed.
Slug B - same as vanilla.

Rock A - plays the same as vanilla, except you can't power 2 missile launchers at once. Ok as it is.
Rock B - Artillery laser destroys everything in the beginning secrors in 2 shots. Each fight lasts exactly 30 seconds. Not sure if it was intended.

Zoltan A - a bit underpovered compared to vanilla. Then again, nothing beats a Halberd Beam.
Zoltan B - mostly fine, though I wonder why Hasta Beam costs 50 scrap, when it is essentially a nerfed Mini-Beam, and those cost 20. The most obvious strategy would be to trade both of these for a better weapon at the first shop.
Last edited by Nevill on Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:36 pm, edited 7 times in total.